Deep hooked salmon on the fly.( anyone ever had a bleeder?)

Loxie

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It is an interesting point and there is no doubt small fish with the full treble in the mouth are in trouble. I'm not sure any hooking of smolts on anything is helpful and avoidance seems sensible where possible. I haven't caught a smolt for a long time because I generally use large flies if I think there are smolts about. The last one I caught was in a very large loch whilst trout fishing, several years ago. I have, however, caught and damaged parr and small trout. I find mini tubes and tiny, 18 or 20 trebles, are the worst.
 

Maggy

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It is an interesting point and there is no doubt small fish with the full treble in the mouth are in trouble. I'm not sure any hooking of smolts on anything is helpful and avoidance seems sensible where possible. I haven't caught a smolt for a long time because I generally use large flies if I think there are smolts about. The last one I caught was in a very large loch whilst trout fishing, several years ago. I have, however, caught and damaged parr and small trout. I find mini tubes and tiny, 18 or 20 trebles, are the worst.
I used to get the chance to fish for sea-trout straight off the tide where snolts were diluted in a big river. Because these trout snatched at the fly I preferred trebles hoping one point would get home.

Now I prefer to fish in smaller sections of the river where Smolt abound. Feeding heavily at dusk. They open their mouths so wide that trebles can't be removed without serious damage. I say this reluctantly because I've boxes of flies dressed on trebles.

As we're told a very small %'age of salmon smolts return now, I feel better fishing doubles, or packing in, rather than damaging smolts.

You're right on parr of course but smolts can't be replaced. Whereas parr are density dependent and, hopefully, the overall numbers are unaffected. But large numbers of night fishermen fishing trebles could inflict some serious damage.
 
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Andrew B

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Thanks. I don't need to. Trebles ate very damaging to smolts especially at dusk. Double extracted much easier.
Never liked em when I used to Spin and there was herling about. Even after flattening the barbs they would often clamp the mouth shut and take far too long to extract.
Given release rates are so high now on rivers, the thought of folk having to put back fish they know are gonna be dead within hours is awful imo.
 

SteveG

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Maybe we should consider the way Carp fishing is going with some people now using barbs over barbless, the thought behind this is that the barbless can come out and relocate in the carps mouth in effect causing more damage than a single hook with a barb that hasn’t moved.

Considering these fish are of considerable value and many carp anglers carry first aid just to apply after they have caught their target there must be some research going into it. This is obviously only applied to the specimen hunters, many of the match fishing carp no longer have what you could call a mouth yet they continue to feed and survive. There is no doubt given the quantity of carp you catch and the opportunity to compare in a very small time frame that fish feel pain this is easy to measure when a 2 pound carp hooked outside its mouth fights like a 6 Pound carp and continues to fight hard even at the net.

I know lads who kill peeler crab before peeling them and have no doubt that some even feel guilt for the worm going on the hook and the only possible none harmful option for them is possibly knitting .....I’m pretty sure that your car windscreen hitting a fly won’t feel good for them on the day

So do we do nothing and go nowhere it would feel like a lockdown 😱
 
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salmo76

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Have had two fish die whilst fly fishing in recent seasons , both grilse hooked on size 10 kamasan B270 doubles. Both were hooked well back in the throat and even though I managed to remove the hook fairly easily with forceps , with little damage I thought , they both bled from the tiny hole the hook had made. One in particular I recall : after quickly unhooking it in the net I put it into the recovery position , now , if I had released my grip immediately on placing it head up in stream I`m sure I would have been able to say " it swam off strongly " however I wasn`t happy as small clouds of blood were seen coming out the back of the gill covers , so I held on a little longer and sure enough it gradually got weaker and weaker and eventually keeled over , all but dead, , gave it another 10 minutes but it was finished.
 

Roag Fisher

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I used to get the chance to fish for

I used to get the chance to fish for sea-trout straight off the tide where snolts were diluted in a big river. Because these trout snatched st the fly I preferred trebles hoping one point would get home.

Now I prefer to fish in smaller sections of the river where Smolt abound. Feeding heavily at dusk. They open their mouths so wide that trebles can't be removed without serious damage. I say this reluctantly because I've boxes of flies dressed on trebles.

As we're told a very small %'age of salmon smolts return now, I feel better fishing doubles, or packing in, rather than damaging smolts.

You're right on parr of course but smolts can't be replaced. Whereas parr are density dependent and, hopefully, the overall numbers are unaffected. But large numbers of night fishermen fishing trebles could inflict some serious damage.
What big river gets a run of sea trout in April and May?
Never a problem for me here as the smolts are long gone before the salmon appear.
Yet to encounter moby-smolt on the Conon in May.
 

Maggy

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Maybe read Nall.
What big river gets a run of sea trout in April and May?
Never a problem for me here as the smolts are long gone before the salmon appear.
Yet to encounter moby-smolt on the Conon in May.
sorry router issues. Your Conon run then is not all-encompassing. In any event, sea-trout Smolt run can be well into June. Especially on low water - night fishing starts then.

Not many good sea-trout rivers have Boosted levels from 🥉HEP
 

AlanT

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Would have thought that if a fish hooked in the eye certainly felt pain then it would not fight but just follow like a dog on a lead,
Bob.
Who knows, I think we, as humans, think that the fish is fighting against us, where in reality it is fighting an invisible force. Imagine being pulled around by something but not knowing why. I.e the fish doesn't know why the hook in its mouth is exerting a strong force pulling it around, and has no awareness of life above the waterline. I'm not sure a fish would follow like a dog as following the pull to lessen the pain is probably not a concept to a fish. More like total panic and flight. Certainly it was a crazy panicked fight so as I say, pain or blindness. But again, who knows.
 

Maggy

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Aye, ok.
I wonder who you were in a previous forum life.
A person trying to help. Very sorry but my router is back up now. Pain to write before.

Nall states there are sea-trout in Till / Tweed every month of the year. Border Esk fishes in May, especially below Liddle junction.

Where you are, I doubt if trebles would be a hassle given the size of HEP releases. They should flush the smolts out quickly, I would have thought and the sea-trout run is struggling now I heard.

But your next door river seems hot for sea-trout, so much so I was going to try it this year. Nall said it was early due to winter sprat abundance in the Firth.

Apols for earlier errors, had to use mobile
 

goosander

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Who knows, I think we, as humans, think that the fish is fighting against us, where in reality it is fighting an invisible force. Imagine being pulled around by something but not knowing why. I.e the fish doesn't know why the hook in its mouth is exerting a strong force pulling it around, and has no awareness of life above the waterline. I'm not sure a fish would follow like a dog as following the pull to lessen the pain is probably not a concept to a fish. More like total panic and flight. Certainly it was a crazy panicked fight so as I say, pain or blindness. But again, who knows.
Do not want to go any further down the road of do fish feel pain. Fish are there for food when we can take the surplus. Regarding parr and smolts. Had to stop using muddlers for the sea trout as was catching large numbers of smolts on them.[ 2-3 inch long muddlers].
Bob.
 
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