Covid Vaccine... Well would you ??

Safranfoer

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;) I say old bean, can you not just nip down Sainsbo's in your XC90 with the heated seats, singing as you go, or better still, have M&S deliver, that way you won't have to engage with others? :eek:

Remember the 80s marketing ditty:

"Will it be advocados, or artichoke?

Will it be asparagus or grated truffle?

Will it be Quinoa or toasted Cous Cous?

We'll have to wait and see...


Hope it's Plantain and Cassava Chips, I ho-ope it's Plantain and Cassava Chips..."




On a serious note, after 30 years working on and off in the Mother Continent, I've never ever seen such grossly disporoportionate devastation to the Mwanachi wrought by something so harmless. Thank feck there's no plans whatsoever to give the vaccine to poor Africans, literally the last thing they need...


Meanwhile, this appears to be an Anti-Vaxxer's Wet Dream:

“We Hadn’t Really Thought Through the Economic Impacts” ~ Melinda Gates


And the Grauniad finally wakes up to the harsh reality

DOH!
XC40. But honestly. The old folk I speak to are sad they can’t hug their people, not weeping that they have to queue at the supermarket. It’s an unfortunate inconvenience, not a humiliation or a sorry spectacle. The hyperbole around this is fabulous. I’m normally the handwringing over-dramatic one. Especially as at most supermarkets the vulnerable don’t have to queue.
 

seeking

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And then again, there's the issue of wasting our NHS resources that could be tasked elsewhere, even the BBC appears to slowly be getting it:

"Covid: NHS long waits 100 times higher than before

The number of patients in England waiting over a year for routine hospital care is now 100 times higher than before the pandemic, figures show.

Nearly 163,000 out of the 4.4 million on the waiting list at the end of October had waited over 12 months for operations such as hip replacements.

There were just 1,600 year-long waiters in February, NHS England data shows.

The Royal College of Surgeons warned patients were being left in pain unable to carry on with "day-to-day life".

"Yet again, these waiting time figures drive home the devastating impact Covid has had on wider NHS services," RCS president Prof Neil Mortensen said.

It was a "national crisis" that could take two to three years to tackle, he added.

The number of long waits is now at its highest level since 2008.

Although there are signs elsewhere in the figures that things may be starting to improve. The number of operations being done is on the increase, while average waits are falling...

The data also shows accident-and-emergency attendances dropped during lockdown.

There were 1.49 million visits to A&E in November - a quarter down on normal levels, raising concerns people with serious illnesses may not be receiving the help they need.

At the peak of the pandemic, attendances dropped to 900,000 a month before climbing during the summer and reaching a peak of 1.72 million."



...though NHS managers apparently don't... :rolleyes:

Mind you perhaps the Covid Catastrophists will be smiling because at least those checking into the NHS to check out and die will be more likely to be checking out "with CV19"
 

Tangled

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Everybody gets it seeking, it's not difficult, it's just that by-and-large we're not psychopaths.
 

happy days

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XC40. But honestly. The old folk I speak to are sad they can’t hug their people, not weeping that they have to queue at the supermarket. It’s an unfortunate inconvenience, not a humiliation or a sorry spectacle. The hyperbole around this is fabulous. I’m normally the handwringing over-dramatic one. Especially as at most supermarkets the vulnerable don’t have to queue.
If you’re old, skint, live alone, don’t have internet access and you’re not the brightest or can work the system you don’t get a vulnerable badge to jump the queue, it’s not about class war it’s that I find your indifference to old people having to freeze their tits off to get food while you wax lyrical about restaurants, Sainsbury’s etc
Quite nauseous
 

Safranfoer

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If you’re old, skint, live alone, don’t have internet access and you’re not the brightest or can work the system you don’t get a vulnerable badge to jump the queue, it’s not about class war it’s that I find your indifference to old people having to freeze their tits off to get food while you wax lyrical about restaurants, Sainsbury’s etc
Quite nauseous
It’s not indifference. I just don’t think queuing alongside everyone else is humiliating or a sorry spectacle. It’s just a queue. It is what it is. The restaurant part was in response to fixedspool saying it’s humiliating that people like me are living in fear. I was just pointing out that I’m really not humiliated, and nor is the person you describe above, or anyone else for that matter. It’s ridiculous hyperbole. I think I have a fair amount of empathy so I’m not willing to accept any suggestion that I’m some kind of Marie Antoinette figure unless you’ll accept that using having to queue as justification to end the tyranny of humiliating coronavirus restrictions is such a stretch it’s a wonder you didn’t put your back out. I suspect most old folk are more stoical, is all. You should have got out of your nice warm car and offered to queue in their place.
 

happy days

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It’s not indifference. I just don’t think queuing alongside everyone else is humiliating or a sorry spectacle. It’s just a queue. It is what it is. The restaurant part was in response to fixedspool saying it’s humiliating that people like me are living in fear. I was just pointing out that I’m really not humiliated, and nor is the person you describe above, or anyone else for that matter. It’s ridiculous hyperbole. I think I have a fair amount of empathy so I’m not willing to accept any suggestion that I’m some kind of Marie Antoinette figure unless you’ll accept that using having to queue as justification to end the tyranny of humiliating coronavirus restrictions is such a stretch it’s a wonder you didn’t put your back out. I suspect most old folk are more stoical, is all. You should have got out of your nice warm car and offered to queue in their place.
I actually do think old people having to queue outside with no shelter in a Uk winter to obtain food is justification for lifting covid restrictions.

The back is fine thanks
 

Safranfoer

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As long as any post-Brexit disruption/hardship means you become a remainer on similarly compassionate grounds and ne’er a ‘short term pain for long term gain’ passes your lips, cool. I accept my powdered wig graciously. Let them eat cake!

Much better that we end restrictions and all the oldies catch covid squashed in the toasty warm supermarket together during Christmas shopping frenzies, eh?
 

Loxie

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As long as any post-Brexit disruption/hardship means you become a remainer on similarly compassionate grounds and ne’er a ‘short term pain for long term gain’ passes your lips, cool. I accept my powdered wig graciously. Let them eat cake!

Much better that we end restrictions and all the oldies catch covid squashed in the toasty warm supermarket together during Christmas shopping frenzies, eh?
I don't know why by I always thought it was brioche. The idea that bread=food was not in her universe and she approached the news that the people had no bread in the way should would if her kitchen staff had got things wrong. Why can't they just use brioche instead? Probably nonsense but there you go.
 

happy days

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I don't know why by I always thought it was brioche. The idea that bread=food was not in her universe and she approached the news that the people had no bread in the way should would if her kitchen staff had got things wrong. Why can't they just use brioche instead? Probably nonsense but there you go.
The queen song says its cake, so cake it is :)
 

Safranfoer

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I don't know why by I always thought it was brioche. The idea that bread=food was not in her universe and she approached the news that the people had no bread in the way should would if her kitchen staff had got things wrong. Why can't they just use brioche instead? Probably nonsense but there you go.
I don’t think she ever actually said it in reality, or rather there’s no proof either way, but you’re right that the original french is brioche.

Today it would need to be organic gluten free.
 

Loxie

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I don’t think she ever actually said it in reality, or rather there’s no proof either way, but you’re right that the original french is brioche.

Today it would need to be organic gluten free.
It's one of those old saws like "Lions led by Donkeys" that been around for ever and gets attributed to whoever is particularly unpopular.
 

salarchaser

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I don’t think she ever actually said it in reality, or rather there’s no proof either way, but you’re right that the original french is brioche.

Today it would need to be organic gluten free.
Dont forget vegan. :unsure:

As for putting words in people's mouths, two arrogant tw@ts on radio 5 yesterday afternoon
The first discussing cryogenics and a couple other cryos, saying that people didnt think life after 75 was living.
The second discussing petrie dish meat, saying people don't care whether their meat is natural or not.

Who do they think they are, speaking for me. I want to know my meat has been walking arround before I eat it and will make full use of every day I have before or after 75.
 

keirross

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Some good, rational points.

My question would be : how many trials of new vaccines, that have shown no detrimental effects in the first 6 months have subsequently gone on to show detrimental effects (later) - using the modern protocols with which these vacines are being tested?

I can only assume that problems have historically been identified almost immediately and they are banking on the laws of probability (through their knowledge and experience), that this will also be the case this time.

If I was a conspiracy theorists, I would say the esteemed professors Willey and Vallance have kept their heads down recently and let Van Dam take the limelight - which seems counter-intuitive considering the long road they have been on.

I haven't forgotten our Professors stated that the longer a lockdown was left the more effective it would be - which defied my common sense at the time and subsequently turned out to be cobblers.

I will probably end up taking a vaccine, but it will be on the basis of known unknowns - if you see what I mean. If there becomes a choice, I will plump for the most 'low tech' version that is reasonably effective. If I was in a high risk group (which I am not) I would swallow the first thing put on the table.
You might realise that the last time we (term) had such a pandemic was... recognised - 1918-19? Remember that? Spanish? That epidemic killed an estimated 50 million counted so you might want to get your jaw round this, some best estimated, currently, at 1.5 - not discounting the fraud that constitutes.
 

Roag Fisher

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A lot of us will have angling holidays booked either in the UK or overseas in the summer, and I for one was thinking the vaccine was the beginning of the end game of the pandemic and travel restrictions would be getting eased well before the summer.
BUT
Our inglorious first miniature has upset (at least) the managers of Edinburgh airport by saying we should not be looking to book summer holidays yet.
That suggests to me that we are all about to embark on a very large trial with the vaccine with no guarantee it will end the pandemic.

 
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keirross

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A risk is either known or estimated can't be both

I haven't a clue but I'd'thought that once it's all been separated from the misinformation/politics/media terror it will end up being accepted as a complex series of interrelated factors varying by health care area/age/demographic/population density/poverty/ability to work from home/likelihood to accept health guidance etc etc etc. The spreading of it is by failing in one form or another to control/limit contact, the dying of it is by being misfortunate enough to be in a vulnerable group.

It seems obvious now that with a respiratory disease that picks off the easy targets the last place you want it is anywhere near aged care and other vulnerable people with existing illnesses and obviously that looks like where the vast majority of the (much loved by the BBC) daily totals are.

I would think that your 2 specific examples (aged care home and meat packing factory) are pretty good ones in that they neatly capture the nature of the problem - how the transmission happens and how the dying happens.
You should maybe start by getting a fundamentally basic understanding of virology and recording accountability - you know, stuff like actual readings, measurement and heaven forfend,

Death WITH covid vaccine .... :).
 

Aidan Rocks

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See the FDA approved the vaccine after all. What a surprise and only a week late. No one died yet, which is a surprise given the age of the people being dosed. Perhaps it makes you live longer instead of killing you. The government
Iied about covid, they have no involvement with the vaccines. They can only f&&& up the distribution now.
 

sneakypeter

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This apparent holy grail has had its first week of delivery, 137000 doses given, (109000 in England), at that rate just over 7million jabs in a year, halved to allow for 2nd dose, does not seem likely to solve this issue any time soon at that rate. Obviously the rate can be upped, but by how much? Even at 500000 a week, it would still take around 5 years, always assuming the vaccine lasts in its effectiveness, if it only lasts even a year, that time span doubles.
Yes I will take it, but not holding my breath for an invite before 2022!!!!!
 

offshore

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This apparent holy grail has had its first week of delivery, 137000 doses given, (109000 in England), at that rate just over 7million jabs in a year, halved to allow for 2nd dose, does not seem likely to solve this issue any time soon at that rate. Obviously the rate can be upped, but by how much? Even at 500000 a week, it would still take around 5 years, always assuming the vaccine lasts in its effectiveness, if it only lasts even a year, that time span doubles.
Yes I will take it, but not holding my breath for an invite before 2022!!!!!
I am not sure it helps in trying to work out the national roll out time, but I can tell you my experience.

I took an elderly relation yesterday for the vaccine - extremely well organised but very labour intensive.

Took place in a modern medical centre that looks like it houses several medical practices. Didn't open until 15.45, so I assume doctors appointments take place until midday and the facilities rejigged afterwards. All staff in medical clothing so not sure who were nurses or medical administrators - 1 on entrance, 4 receptionists asking names plus medical details, 4 vaccination rooms with two nurses each, a doctor who was providing answers for the tricky medical responses (eg my eyes went red last time I had a vaccination) plus 4 peoples ushering people around the system and disinfecting chairs as people left.

The nurse very, very carefully withdrew the vaccination dose and then asked a separate nurse to verify the quantity - 0.3ml. I was impressed by that. Reading an article last night it seems an increase of 6 doses has now been approved, to be taken from each vial (up from an initial 5). This avoids the original wastage of vaccine left in the bottle - which holds 2ml.

A timed dated card was given, with patients required to stop 15 minutes before leaving. After our 15 minutes the waiting area had gone from empty to holding perhaps 20 patients. Tuesday was the first trial day and they had done 100 people, so 20 people in 15 minutes is an improvement on that.

Some of the poor souls looked very frail. I realise for much of the Let-it-Rip gang on here, it is just bravado to impress their mates; in real life they would struggle to look these people in the eye and tell them they represent economic collateral damage. I am totally convinced of that.

I stopped with my patient overnight - no side affects last night or today; that's good.

 
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Heero

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Andrew B

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Well I had the flu jab so meh.
I don’t believe any vaccines are meant to be nefarious albeit I’m well aware of some of the monumental mess ups such as the awful lawsuits in Scotland over dirty blood.

Over the pond did anyone see the video with nurse who half an hour after being jabbed and in the middle of an interview just passed out 😂. Shouldn’t laugh but those trying to explain said “oh she always passes out that one”. Erm so why use her to give others confidence lol? The same day one nitwit doing the shots forget to throw the used one away and jabbed the next patient with it😂, you could see him realise when he felt that the plunger was down.

Oh dear.
 

ozzyian

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Well I had the flu jab so meh.
I don’t believe any vaccines are meant to be nefarious albeit I’m well aware of some of the monumental mess ups such as the awful lawsuits in Scotland over dirty blood.

Over the pond did anyone see the video with nurse who half an hour after being jabbed and in the middle of an interview just passed out 😂. Shouldn’t laugh but those trying to explain said “oh she always passes out that one”. Erm so why use her to give others confidence lol? The same day one nitwit doing the shots forget to throw the used one away and jabbed the next patient with it😂, you could see him realise when he felt that the plunger was down.

Oh dear.

The patient would have realised the mistake anyway when his download speeds stayed the same.
 
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