Covid Injection

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Walleye

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We have vaccinated the older population many of whom , as you point out , have either chosen not to be admitted as part of their advanced care plan or are so frail they wouldn’t be candidates for ICU even if they were admitted. The vast majority of under 60s have not been vaccinated and yet this age group makes up a large proportion of Covid ICU admissions.

I’d argue that we need to make sure that over the next couple of months there are high vaccination rates in the 40 to 60 years age range , especially in ethnic minority and deprived groups , or we risk another surge of ICU admissions by opening up too early.

The supply of vaccines in April was described as being “ lumpy “ by Matt Hancock so it’s anticipated that those in their 40s would get their vaccine some time in May. The current roadmap out of lockdown seems reasonable given that timescale.


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50-60 makes up the majority of ICU with Covid. We are literally 2-3 weeks away from this group having excellent protection.
 

carrowmore

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50-60 makes up the majority of ICU with Covid. We are literally 2-3 weeks away from this group having excellent protection.

13% of Covid ICU patients are aged between 40 and 50 years , many of them with children still at home. We’ve come this far so why not wait the extra few weeks until that age group has been vaccinated too ?


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Safranfoer

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Oh I'm really glad you're now a medical expert :p

Don't you mean 'I think' to much of the above? (y)

Seasonal flu mutates like a barsteward yet we get through that OK.....well not OK for those that contract it and die of it every year. (OBVS not this year as we seem to have eradicated it)

ALL viruses mutate. Up until now there is absolutely no scientific proof that any variant thus far is more transmissible, more acute or more deadly.

That's just all hyperbole by the MSM. Feel free to lap that up and run with it...I'm not.

You may have missed a post by me weeks and weeks ago linking to an article in the Japanese press where they'd found the Kent Variant in folk that had absolutely zero contact with anyone and anything from outside Japan.

I wonder how that happened?

Over and out for this evening. I need to chill now.
It’s not an ‘I think’. It’s the stated why. And it’s not invented by the MSM. They’re not driving policy. They’re reporting it, to varying degrees of accuracy. But as for why we are still under restrictions, the reasons I gave aren’t my own opinion and they don’t require medical knowledge. They’re the stated reasons. I choose to believe them as they make sense, they don’t to you and you think the government is lying - there’s no reason for everything to get so aggro.

Just on the Kent variant... its genome was first identified in cases in Kent but it could have originated anywhere. We have one of the most sophisticated genome sequencing programmes in the world - it’s very cool

My phone just randomly inserted this image. No idea how but maybe it just wanted to send no hard feelings...


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Bonito

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Probably is sadly. Just as it'll be equally terrifying to all those destined to die of other serious illness currently undiagnosed because of the focus on that tiny figure above.

That, however, is not a reason to bankrupt the nation mentally and financially. I'll say it again 0.0001% and that's not accounting for those 830 folk currently in hospital in E+W who make up that percentage who will go on to make a full recovery.

My post was all about perspective....currently in dire short supply in the MSM and by certain folk on here.

Again to add some perspective, would you, for example, throw out really good wrapping thread and shut your business down if you had a failure rate of 0.0001% on said thread...even if some of said thread could be saved?

I've stood back and watched the narrative for a long while now. It simply doesn't match up with the facts, facts gleaned, as others have, from the official publicised data.

If one listens to the Govt. briefings and the MSM. One could rapidly come to the conclusion that they have no belief in the vaccines at all. Discuss :p

Tripe, equating thread with peoples lifes
 

Walleye

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13% of Covid ICU patients are aged between 40 and 50 years , many of them with children still at home. We’ve come this far so why not wait the extra few weeks until that age group has been vaccinated too ?


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Does that mean ~87% are in the group 50+?

I'll be honest here, no we shouldn't wait.

Lockdown is bloody hard on millions of people who have negligible chance of getting seriously ill. Those people have paid a huge price to give protection to those at risk. So we owe it to those millions who have sacrificed their livelihoods to get back to normal as soon as the situation is manageable for the NHS.
 

carrowmore

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Does that mean ~87% are in the group 50+?

I'll be honest here, no we shouldn't wait.

Lockdown is bloody hard on millions of people who have negligible chance of getting seriously ill. Those people have paid a huge price to give protection to those at risk. So we owe it to those millions who have sacrificed their livelihoods to get back to normal as soon as the situation is manageable for the NHS.

I’d echo the words of Prof Whitty “ If you look at the history of this all around the world it’s full of leaders who wished they had acted quicker and then been more careful as they take things off “ .

We’ve had one of the worst death rates in the world , disproportionately affecting ethnic minorities and deprived communities , because we dithered in locking down and then relaxed restrictions too quickly. If we lifted everything whilst we still have millions of middle aged working people to vaccinate then inevitably there will be another surge in admissions and more lives lost unnecessarily. The plan to get as many of the 40 + age group vaccinated as possible before gradually opening up is sensible and indicates that Johnson and co have learned from their mistakes.




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Rrrr

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And..... what started off as a positive thread has decended into the usual bickering. Shame really.

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tenet

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I’d echo the words of Prof Whitty “ If you look at the history of this all around the world it’s full of leaders who wished they had acted quicker and then been more careful as they take things off “ .

We’ve had one of the worst death rates in the world , disproportionately affecting ethnic minorities and deprived communities , because we dithered in locking down and then relaxed restrictions too quickly. If we lifted everything whilst we still have millions of middle aged working people to vaccinate then inevitably there will be another surge in admissions and more lives lost unnecessarily. The plan to get as many of the 40 + age group vaccinated as possible before gradually opening up is sensible and indicates that Johnson and co have learned from their mistakes.




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We had the conversation re number of deaths some while ago - I re iterate from "full facts" site:

On 17 March, NHS England and NHS Improvement wrote to trusts telling them to “expand critical care capacity to the maximum” by freeing up beds. This was to ensure the NHS had the capacity it needed to treat Covid-19 patients in the coming weeks and months.

To that end, trusts were told to postpone all non-urgent operations and to “urgently discharge all hospital inpatients who are medically fit to leave.” This included some inpatients who would then be discharged to a care home.

NHS Providers, which is the association of trusts and foundation trusts in England, says: “NHS England and Improvement made this decision having just witnessed the health and care system in Northern Italy being overwhelmed by Covid-19 demand.”

Two days later, the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) and NHS England and Improvement published the discharge requirements in detail.

There was no requirement to test everyone who was discharged to see if they were infected. The document said that, where applicable, Covid-19 test results should be included in the documentation that accompanied people who were discharged.
 

carrowmore

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And..... what started off as a positive thread has decended into the usual bickering. Shame really.

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I think we are having a respectful debate on the timescales for relaxation of restrictions. There is uncertainty and a balance to be taken into account so it’s very much open to debate. The vaccines are brilliantly effective !


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Handel

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I think we are having a respectful debate on the timescales for relaxation of restrictions. There is uncertainty and a balance to be taken into account so it’s very much open to debate. The vaccines are brilliantly effective !


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Yes you are and it belongs on the Coronavirus thread. This used to be a very interesting thread about the vaccine and its supply. Now.......it isn't. Rrrr is spot on.
 

carrowmore

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We had the conversation re number of deaths some while ago - I re iterate from "full facts" site:

On 17 March, NHS England and NHS Improvement wrote to trusts telling them to “expand critical care capacity to the maximum” by freeing up beds. This was to ensure the NHS had the capacity it needed to treat Covid-19 patients in the coming weeks and months.

To that end, trusts were told to postpone all non-urgent operations and to “urgently discharge all hospital inpatients who are medically fit to leave.” This included some inpatients who would then be discharged to a care home.

NHS Providers, which is the association of trusts and foundation trusts in England, says: “NHS England and Improvement made this decision having just witnessed the health and care system in Northern Italy being overwhelmed by Covid-19 demand.”

Two days later, the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) and NHS England and Improvement published the discharge requirements in detail.

There was no requirement to test everyone who was discharged to see if they were infected. The document said that, where applicable, Covid-19 test results should be included in the documentation that accompanied people who were discharged.


This article is worth reading in regard to Covid deaths in care homes



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Walleye

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I’d echo the words of Prof Whitty “ If you look at the history of this all around the world it’s full of leaders who wished they had acted quicker and then been more careful as they take things off “ .

We’ve had one of the worst death rates in the world , disproportionately affecting ethnic minorities and deprived communities , because we dithered in locking down and then relaxed restrictions too quickly. If we lifted everything whilst we still have millions of middle aged working people to vaccinate then inevitably there will be another surge in admissions and more lives lost unnecessarily. The plan to get as many of the 40 + age group vaccinated as possible before gradually opening up is sensible and indicates that Johnson and co have learned from their mistakes.




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They also said several weeks ago the vaccine is already breaking the link between cases and hospital admissions.

It's one or the other. They can't have it both ways. If we really are seeing a huge success in the vaccine roll out, let's take advantage of that success.
 

tenet

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Back on topic - with the huge success of the vaccine roll out I find it rather disturbing that circa 25% of care home staff are not coming forward to be jabbed. Should it be compulsory?

Critics talk of better education and knowledge but even my grandaughters gerbil knows that the jab is safe. What more can be done?
 

fixedspool

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I see Carrowmore is off again . Sounds a bit like the disgraced Prof. Neil Ferguson who again turned up for an interview on BBC 1, Tt was a car crash. He answered absolutely nothing without some sort of caveat and it was pretty obvious to everyone he had no real idea what had happened, why and what the future consequences might be on ordinary members of the population -the vast majority, and probably cares even less. He was about as convincing as Vallance and Whitty who now seem to dictate our destiny, together with SAGE. Why is that. Whatever happened to democracy/ exactly who is making the decision on the future of our country and it.s inhabitants as we slide further down the road of a totalitarian regime unthinkable 12 months ago. It's happening in plain sight and we go along with it hoping for a light at the end of the tunnel. It's not just about Covid Its about control. wake up for heavens sake.
 
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westie4566

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Yes you are and it belongs on the Coronavirus thread. This used to be a very interesting thread about the vaccine and its supply. Now.......it isn't. Rrrr is spot on.
Agreed - it's all to easy to get sucked in and get off track!
 

mows

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Back on topic - with the huge success of the vaccine roll out I find it rather disturbing that circa 25% of care home staff are not coming forward to be jabbed. Should it be compulsory?

Critics talk of better education and knowledge but even my grandaughters gerbil knows that the jab is safe. What more can be done?
if all the residents are vaccinated.
What difference does it make if any of the carers aren't.
They would save a lot more lives banning sugar, or smoking.

Its the thin edge of the wedge for me.
 

Safranfoer

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if all the residents are vaccinated.
What difference does it make if any of the carers aren't.
They would save a lot more lives banning sugar, or smoking.

Its the thin edge of the wedge for me.
The older and more ill you are, the more likely you are to become very ill from covid. Your level of illness correlates with your age and the quality of your immune system. Those in care homes are the very weakest, so the vaccine can only do so much. Deaths will still happen. It should be treated the same as the flu in that regard - care home workers are urged to take the vaccine, even though residents are vaccinated. Care homes appoint Flu Champions, eg.
 

Birkin

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Only a glassful Bassfly, your a lightweight. There again that's what most of you posts have shown as well. Nothing to contribute really. :sleep:
Only contribute when you have something to say that makes sense. My contribution is to tell you that. The full glass of red was very nice thanks very much.
Did you not know that being a lightweight in the present pandemic is much better for your health. What's your BMI. Genuine question.
 

mows

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The older and more ill you are, the more likely you are to become very ill from covid. Your level of illness correlates with your age and the quality of your immune system. Those in care homes are the very weakest, so the vaccine can only do so much. Deaths will still happen. It should be treated the same as the flu in that regard - care home workers are urged to take the vaccine, even though residents are vaccinated. Care homes appoint Flu Champions, eg.
Exactly Saffy.
Next week we will be making Flu jabs legally compulsory.
The week after it will be vitamin D tablets.
The week after it will be making smoking illegal.
And the week after alcohol will be banned.

And if not, where is the justification to make covid vaccine the only important one worth legalising.

The covid vaccine must still be a freedom of choice!!!

Its not about loss of life.

Next year in Scotland, as much life years will be lost due to drugs, as covid in 2020.

If it was about loss of life, we would have to spend the same amount of money, saving the same number of life years.

Ive got my jab on Monday.
A wee bit sore arm, and a bit tired but that's it so far.
 

offshore

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Probably is sadly. Just as it'll be equally terrifying to all those destined to die of other serious illness currently undiagnosed because of the focus on that tiny figure above.

That, however, is not a reason to bankrupt the nation mentally and financially. I'll say it again 0.0001% and that's not accounting for those 830 folk currently in hospital in E+W who make up that percentage who will go on to make a full recovery.

My post was all about perspective....currently in dire short supply in the MSM and by certain folk on here.

Again to add some perspective, would you, for example, throw out really good wrapping thread and shut your business down if you had a failure rate of 0.0001% on said thread...even if some of said thread could be saved?

I've stood back and watched the narrative for a long while now. It simply doesn't match up with the facts, facts gleaned, as others have, from the official publicised data.

If one listens to the Govt. briefings and the MSM. One could rapidly come to the conclusion that they have no belief in the vaccines at all. Discuss :p
I think there is something in your last sentence. The body language of the key podium players looks all wrong to me, for a group of people who think the finish line is already in sight.

They look tired, with a sense there could be a lot more slog to come. They don't want to put people off the current vaccine because they think it will of some use (perhaps a lot), but they aren't convinced we have got the silver bullet just yet for salvation.

That's what my intuition tells me - but could be just a lot off cobblers (to save somebody telling me).
 

fixedspool

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I think there is something in your last sentence. The body language of the key podium players looks all wrong to me, for a group of people who think the finish line is already in sight.

They look tired, with a sense there could be a lot more slog to come. They don't want to put people off the current vaccine because they think it will of some use (perhaps a lot), but they aren't convinced we have got the silver bullet just yet for salvation.

That's what my intuition tells me - but could be just a lot off cobblers (to save somebody telling me).
I think that just about sums it up and the so called interview with Prof Ferguson this morning was proof of that if any more was needed.
They cannot convince some people when they are clearly cannot convinced themselves.
 

pol_angler

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That's just plain wrong though. None of the variants are vaccine resistant so why should we lock people up just in case?

Here's the thing, this focus on variants is made by politicians looking for something else to blame other than themselves.

Take the "UK variant" which became news when it was clear we were in for a big jump in cases because Bozza was intent on saving Christmas. We opened up early December and we shopped like crazy and visited folk and did everything we really shouldn't have done, given that at the time the vaccine wasn't rolled out. That big peak in early January was directly a result of a political decision to try to "save Christmas".
Politicians made noise about the UK variant being more infectious, more deadly, data was being released on how prevalent it was in the UK. UK variant was used as the reason for the harsh lockdown we are still in.
Yet, as it turns out, the UK variant is no more infectious and no more deadly than whatever variant came before. It's the same old Covid-19 but it was a useful scapegoat to distract attention.
Now, if what pol angler is saying is anything like what is going on in the EU, these variants are being used by their politicians to distract attention away from their own massive failures in rolling out the vaccine. Anything at all is being grabbed upon to drive the narrative away from their own invompetence....
AZ is not effective for over 65's
AZ is not effective
AZ is too cheap
AZ gives you blood clots
Actually, AZ is OK now
UK variant originated in UK (complete BS)
UK and SA variants are causing the spikes and third lockdowns

It's a huge problem, as I understand it around 50% I France don't want the vaccine, even fewer want the AZ and would prefer to wait for Pfizer. This is a problem because the R0 for Covid is around 3 -4 so about 67% to 75% of the population need to be vaccinated for the Re to remain below 1 and for the virus to fizzle out.

Politicians all over are making a huge mess of this. You will know in your job that the language and message about vaccinations needs to be on point or you get big trouble with take up.

When there is evidence that variants are definitely vaccine resistant and we can understand the implications of that, then we need to take action. It is frankly incredible that we would sacrifice people's jobs and livelihoods simply because a variant MAY come along at some time in the future which MAY be resistant and MAY cause problems for the NHS. We can't live our lives like that.

Interesting.

If variants don't exist or don't have much effect on new recorded infections, surely then the UK is due to have another spike brought by Europeans?? To quote your PM, " europe fallout will wash up on our shores".

What if there is none, and I say - there won't be because the third wave already has gone through UK. Will we see another statement from your PM praising vaccination roll out that prevented brittish people from third wave?? lol

Sadly, many simple UK folk will fall for that.
 
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