Covid -19 distribution in B&B's , hotels and self catering cottages etc.

morphfly

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I have some sympathy with the opposing views expressed on this thread but unless life returns to what we termed normal ,soon ,there'll be nothing to return to.
Though 50 or60,000 deaths is to be regretted it's only what could be expected from a major flu epidemic.
Remember some countries didn't have,or curtailed, a lockdown and don't seem to have suffered adversely.
Morphfly
 

Occasional salmon fisher

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I have some sympathy with the opposing views expressed on this thread but unless life returns to what we termed normal ,soon ,there'll be nothing to return to.
Though 50 or60,000 deaths is to be regretted it's only what could be expected from a major flu epidemic.
Remember some countries didn't have,or curtailed, a lockdown and don't seem to have suffered adversely.
Morphfly
I think life is returning/going to return to something like normal soon unless there is a major second wave. It just means that people need to take as many sensible measures and precautions as they can whilst trying to work and live fairly normally (keep up the handwashing, cleaning shopping, avoiding large indoor gatherings etc). And anyone with symptoms needs to isolate immediately and inform anyone they have been in contact with.
There is no zero risk solution.
 

Safranfoer

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Remember some countries didn't have,or curtailed, a lockdown and don't seem to have suffered adversely.
Morphfly
Which countries?

I haven't seen any like for like comparisons that show that powering through is a better plan than lockdown - eg, when comparing Sweden to its neighbours, or Brazil to neighbouring countries...

The economic outlook for Sweden is certainly no better (or worse). Their economy is expected to shrink by 7% in 2020 (the Swedish central bank actually says 10%), ours by 8%.

Brazil's economy is so reliant on agricultural export that yes, their approach did preserve the money to a degree, with a contraction of 'just' 4% - but they are on fire right now. I wrote a report on Brazil for one of my clients (it's a major market for them) and everything other than the soy yield is out of control.

I have seen lots of evidence on the flipside - that locking down HARD and decisively gets things back to normal, including the economy. Life in New Zealand is normal now. Hong Kong is pretty normal. Their economies will fare better, because of the lockdown.

Here, we have the worst of all worlds, imo - a tentative advisory lockdown, implemented far too late. Just enough to be massively disruptive, not enough to get things under control decisively and allow us all to move on.

I'm genuinely interested in any countries that haven't hit the headlines and are doing OK despite no lockdown.
 

morphfly

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Which countries?

I haven't seen any like for like comparisons that show that powering through is a better plan than lockdown - eg, when comparing Sweden to its neighbours, or Brazil to neighbouring countries...

The economic outlook for Sweden is certainly no better (or worse). Their economy is expected to shrink by 7% in 2020 (the Swedish central bank actually says 10%), ours by 8%.

Brazil's economy is so reliant on agricultural export that yes, their approach did preserve the money to a degree, with a contraction of 'just' 4% - but they are on fire right now. I wrote a report on Brazil for one of my clients (it's a major market for them) and everything other than the soy yield is out of control.

I have seen lots of evidence on the flipside - that locking down HARD and decisively gets things back to normal, including the economy. Life in New Zealand is normal now. Hong Kong is pretty normal. Their economies will fare better, because of the lockdown.

Here, we have the worst of all worlds, imo - a tentative advisory lockdown, implemented far too late. Just enough to be massively disruptive, not enough to get things under control decisively and allow us all to move on.

I'm genuinely interested in any countries that haven't hit the headlines and are doing OK despite no lockdown.
What I meant was they were no worse than those who locked down or continued to lock down. Didn't say that they had had no effects.
Morphfly
 

Safranfoer

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What I meant was they were no worse than those who locked down or continued to lock down. Didn't say that they had had no effects.
Morphfly
The options appear to be, based on what we've learned so far from other countries:
  • No lockdown, no need to release, severe economic consequences and many dead grandads
  • Lukewarm lockdown, quick release, severe economic consequences and many dead grandads
  • Lukewarm lockdown, controlled release (masks, temperature checks etc), severe economic consequences and fewer dead grandads
  • Tight lockdown, controlled release (masks, temperature checks etc), less severe economic consequences and fewer still dead grandads
The middle ground isn't always the best.
 

Cyclops

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Which countries?

I haven't seen any like for like comparisons that show that powering through is a better plan than lockdown - eg, when comparing Sweden to its neighbours, or Brazil to neighbouring countries...

The economic outlook for Sweden is certainly no better (or worse). Their economy is expected to shrink by 7% in 2020 (the Swedish central bank actually says 10%), ours by 8%.

Brazil's economy is so reliant on agricultural export that yes, their approach did preserve the money to a degree, with a contraction of 'just' 4% - but they are on fire right now. I wrote a report on Brazil for one of my clients (it's a major market for them) and everything other than the soy yield is out of control.

I have seen lots of evidence on the flipside - that locking down HARD and decisively gets things back to normal, including the economy. Life in New Zealand is normal now. Hong Kong is pretty normal. Their economies will fare better, because of the lockdown.

Here, we have the worst of all worlds, imo - a tentative advisory lockdown, implemented far too late. Just enough to be massively disruptive, not enough to get things under control decisively and allow us all to move on.

I'm genuinely interested in any countries that haven't hit the headlines and are doing OK despite no lockdown.
Monaco?
 

Safranfoer

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Maybe it's the speed of lockdown that really makes the difference. Monaco locked down in a similar way to us (not super harsh), but released in a more controlled manner, unlike us - so masks are mandatory, release was phased more slowly.

But they implemented measures 17 days after the first confirmed case. We implemented our measures 46 days after the first confirmed case.

When you look at it like that - difficult not to wonder what was going on in our decision makers' heads....
 

Cyclops

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Andorra?

no scrap that, ive just googled and they dont look as though they have faired well
 

Safranfoer

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It feels like everything's moving more slowly here, because we moved more slowly. No amount of people wanting things to go back to normal changes the fact that we allowed it to get out of control, and then didn't move decisively enough to put a proper lid on it, and now we're here wondering whether the B&B we've booked in August will have a sterilising system while other countries are actually just getting on, because they're in a much better starting place than we are. The state of the nation's health may well explain the deaths, but it doesn't explain the sheer scale of the infection. That was a political decision, and now we're reaping the reward, trying to re-open when we haven't got control of the situation yet, we don't have proper visibility of the number of cases, people supposed to implement local lockdowns are saying they don't get the data fast enough and are receiving their instructions via the media like everyone else.... A mess.

Oof. I'm going to make coffee and write happy things for my clients. I'm writing about family day trips in China today.
 

Cyclops

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Our nations health, its funny because id actually wager we are a far healthier nation now than we were 5 10 15 30 40 years ago and that trend continues. Smokers are now in the minority, joggers around every corner, more playing sports, cyclists aplenty, healthy foods shops and lifestyle eating is now the new rigor, Cant say much about the booze but we all need some vice dont we. Id hate to think how many deaths the UK would have had if COVID-19 struck in the late 70s going on that basis

"I'm writing about family day trips in China today"

I wouldnt recommend dropping in past the Endangered Wildlife and Animal Trade Markets for a browse
 

Safranfoer

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Good point about health. I keep forgetting we're not as obese as the 'blame ANYTHING but the govt' narrative would like us to believe, when you look at the global league table of obesity.
 
S

Sarcy

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Sorry, didnt realise opinion or speculation wasnt allowed on the forum.

Seems a bit ironic that you posted that this thread is getting more silly.
Must be a fact as Im sure you wouldnt be posting opinion on here.

Hey ho.
That's all there has ever been on these Corvid posts, Endless personal opinion and speculation most of it utterly pointless and banal, and backed up by no facts whatsoever.
 

MikeCC

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That's all there has ever been on these Corvid posts, Endless personal opinion and speculation most of it utterly pointless and banal, and backed up by no facts whatsoever.
I think the very opening line of this thread sums it up pretty well when the OP stated ‘now I am no expert in virology’ but happily proceeded to tell us all that in his opinion self catering holiday cottages would become quote ‘viral distribution epicentres’. If thats not armchair expertise at its finest then i’ll eat my hat. We then had bandwagon jumpers wanting to talk court cases and legal action. I think we’re all intelligent enough(although sometimes I do wonder) where phrases of ‘idle talk’ lead to. Nuff said.
 

Jockiescott

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I think the very opening line of this thread sums it up pretty well when the OP stated ‘now I am no expert in virology’ but happily proceeded to tell us all that in his opinion self catering holiday cottages would become quote ‘viral distribution epicentres’. If thats not armchair expertise at its finest then i’ll eat my hat. We then had bandwagon jumpers wanting to talk court cases and legal action. I think we’re all intelligent enough(although sometimes I do wonder) where phrases of ‘idle talk’ lead to. Nuff said.
The number of enquiries to solicitors since shops opened here less than two weeks ago should be warning to anyone in the hospitality trade.

Everything from people claiming to have damaged their hands from a shops brand of hand sanitiser to people being 'discriminated' against for being refused entry to a shop because they refused to wear a mask.
 

MikeCC

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The number of enquiries to solicitors since shops opened here less than two weeks ago should be warning to anyone in the hospitality trade.

Everything from people claiming to have damaged their hands from a shops brand of hand sanitiser to people being 'discriminated' against for being refused entry to a shop because they refused to wear a mask.
which solicitors are these?
 

Jockiescott

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which solicitors are these?
You want specific solicitors names? I don't know. Solicitors in general.

There is a case with one shop in a local town where a girls mother has her solicitors looking into whether her daughter was discriminated against because she refused to wear a mask. The girl is heavily pregnant and has asthma. This is not an isolated case. Don't ask me the name of the solicitor as I don't know.

Our government is the only one that hasn't made face covering mandatory on public transport until they get legal advice. In other words, they're scared of people claiming discrimination for not being allowed to use public transport for refusing to wear a mask.

 

MikeCC

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You want specific solicitors names? I don't know. Solicitors in general.

There is a case with one shop in a local town where a girls mother has her solicitors looking into whether her daughter was discriminated against because she refused to wear a mask. The girl is heavily pregnant and has asthma. This is not an isolated case. Don't ask me the name of the solicitor as I don't know.

Our government is the only one that hasn't made face covering mandatory on public transport until they get legal advice. In other words, they're scared of people claiming discrimination for not being allowed to use public transport for refusing to wear a mask.

Ah....I thought you were going to provide a reference to your suggestion that solicitors were being inundated with legal claims against shops in the last 2 weeks.....
 

Jockiescott

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Ah....I thought you were going to provide a reference to your suggestion that solicitors were being inundated with legal claims against shops in the last 2 weeks.....
So because I can't supply a bbc news link to solicitors being inundated, it isn't happening?
 

MikeCC

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So because I can't supply a bbc news link to solicitors being inundated, it isn't happening?
It was you who said that the ‘numbers of enquiries to solicitors in the last 2 weeks since shops opened should be a warning shot to the hospitality industry’. That suggests theres been a serious rise(why not call it an epidemic seeings we’re on the subject of a virus) in legal claims in the last fortnight against shops. It wouldve been helpful if you’d provided a reference to that claim rather than just an isolated tale, otherwise we’re just making ‘idle talk’ yet again, just like the OP.
 

Jockiescott

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It was you who said that the ‘numbers of enquiries to solicitors in the last 2 weeks since shops opened should be a warning shot to the hospitality industry’. That suggests theres been a serious rise(why not call it an epidemic seeings we’re on the subject of a virus) in legal claims in the last fortnight against shops. It wouldve been helpful if you’d provided a reference to that claim rather than just an isolated tale, otherwise we’re just making ‘idle talk’ yet again, just like the OP.
There probably won't be links available as these will probably never see court but there are cases in America and other countries around the world that I can link to if you wish? If that settles you in some way?
 

MikeCC

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There probably won't be links available as these will probably never see court but there are cases in America and other countries around the world that I can link to if you wish? If that settles you in some way?
No it wont appease me because you specifically mentioned numbers of legal cases quote ‘here’, as in UK, so im not really interested in the cases being claimed in America(the Yanks sue for everything, including suing their own grandmothers). Im only after a reference to your sweeping claim that solicitors are being inundated with legal claims against shops(here).
Do yourself a favour and stop digging a hole for you to fall further into.
 

Jockiescott

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No it wont appease me because you specifically mentioned numbers of legal cases quote ‘here’, as in UK, so im not really interested in the cases being claimed in America(the Yanks sue for everything, including suing their own grandmothers). Im only after a reference to your sweeping claim that solicitors are being inundated with legal claims against shops(here).
Do yourself a favour and stop digging a hole for you to fall further into.
Ok, I'll stop.

If and when I do find UK links will I post them or will that not be necessary either?
 
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