Coronavirus

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seeking

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There are a few things here...

The current vaccines are effective at preventing infection at around 80% but they are close to 100% effective at preventing hospital admissions.

Even if the new variants (none so far have) are more resistant to preventing infection, that doesn't mean they will not be as effective at preventing hospital admissions.

The vaccine will break the link between cases and hospital admissions. So what is important post vaccine is not to be concerned one iota about the number of cases, but to only act or react on the trends of hospital admissions.

You can see this happening now. Throughout March the number of cases plateaued. Normally, 1-2 weeks after a change in cases, hospital admissions change, then another week or so and deaths change. That's not happening now...cases flat lined in March but admissions and deaths kept on falling.

Once the vulnerable (those who may end up in hospital) are vaccinated then the health care system will be fine and we can all get back to living normally. It's either vaccine or lockdown, not both.

We need to stop being pussies and worrying about what might happen if we get back to normal. Well, the only way we can know what would happen for sure is by getting back to normal ASAP.

I can understand why hyping the impact of vaccination helps the mental preparedness of the country. Whether it's placebo, we may never know. Suspect so.

What worries me is the worry warts and scaremongers hyping the new normal and having everyone vaccinated for no good reason just to conform. Israel has done a great job, but guess which is the most marginalised community, excluded!!!

However, at the back of my mind is the very real possibility that because we locked down too late (after peak infection by my and others [including Witless and Unbalanced and Bonking Bozza] calculations) hospitalisation is down in the second wave not because of vaccination but because of pre-existing immunity (T-cells misunderstood and mounting evidence of efficacy c.f. CV19 antibodies) and so cause-coincidence wrt vaccine will be difficult to separate. Absolute excess deaths were substantially smaller in the 2nd wave than the first, despite the FACT that the timing of the 1st wave was wierd in terms of seasonal death, but the 2nd wave was bang on the peak we normally get in the first month or two of the year!

Anecdote: my most vulnerable rellies survived wave 1, and were ever so cautious in everything they did, not allowing visitors, sanitising anything coming into the house, and did not get infected in wave 1. Not so in the 2nd wave where they both got it and easily recovered. So perhaps that sways my personal thought process, but admittedly a small direct sample population! Sure.

Who knows. Hypotheses only. Jab may be coincidence.


Being cynical, one could say that it gives the powers that be even more time to fill theirs and their cronies pockets.

There is definitely more than a little truth in this, and like just about everything that's happened through the pandemic, cronies will benefit and the poor and marginalised will continue to be shafted.

However, there is likely more to this than meets the eye. Project fear, in full swing here with it's cheerleaders, is basically a little bit like a war. An economic one. Scare folk witless and they won't go and spend their hard earned in Europe. Maximise funds in this country not outwith it. That is why HMG want to confine us to barracks, surely. And in that regard if they told the truth, I'd prefer it.

Portugal is desperate for us to visit the Algarve and spend our hard-earned there. HMG doesn't want it. EndEx... Wierdly the remoaners are responsible for this too :D:):D:):D:):D:)
 
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westie4566

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I’m not disagreeing with the facts as presented, necessarily. But. I need to know WHY. There are theories about it being a way to take away some of our freedoms and liberties. I’d buy that more easily if it wasn’t so economically ruinous. The narrative there would surely be - we’ll let you out if... it doesn’t seem to be that. Yet. Maybe they’re laying the ground for it.
Economically ruinous for many, but not all.

There's a load of folk made fortunes off the back of this and most of it's come out of our pockets.
 

westie4566

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Disaster capitalism. Hmmm. Horribly feels more believable than a rights grab.
There are always those that do well from a disaster.

WW2 was no different.

Close family of mine did well out of that. There was a black market and those with the where with all to fund it. My family had the goods desired and with a little ingenuity and a lot of risk made a fortune. Looking back at family papers it would appear that they made around 1.5 million in todays terms.:oops:

So, if you currently have the power to influence and are profiting nicely out of our misery, why would you help or want to put a stop to the gravy train? If your of that ilk you'd certainly not be giving a flying f about anyone else anyway.
 

Walleye

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There are always those that do well from a disaster.

WW2 was no different.

Close family of mine did well out of that. There was a black market and those with the where with all to fund it. My family had the goods desired and with a little ingenuity and a lot of risk made a fortune. Looking back at family papers it would appear that they made around 1.5 million in todays terms.:oops:

So, if you currently have the power to influence and are profiting nicely out of our misery, why would you help or want to put a stop to the gravy train? If your of that ilk you'd certainly not be giving a flying f about anyone else anyway.
There is no great conspiracy. It's true that in every recession the rich get richer and the poor get poorer which leads to a widening of the gap.
It's also true that in every boom period, the rich get richer at an even faster rate, and the poorer get richer.
Which means the poor pay for every recession, which has always been the case since recessions became a real thing.

But no, there is no real reason for the very rich to limit their earning power for the sake of p1ssing everybody off and risking a big change to the status quo, which for the west means alternatives to global capitalism, which has served to line pockets for so so long.

It's just politicians without the will to lead us out of the recession on the back of a successful vaccine program. To be fair, we are seeing human nature at work here...they've been bashed from pillar to post for a year now, all the while watching the death counter creep up.....it's natural for the whole lot of them to be very risk averse in such circumstances.

For the benefit of good decision making, they must understand this and rather than do the safe thing, do the right thing, and have the kahunas to stand up and tell people why we are doing this....we have spent a year protecting the vulnerable, now protecting the vulnerable is the job of the vaccine and our focus must be the vulnerable of the future....the kids and young people we need to create jobs for so they have not just life, but real purposeful productive lives.
 

Safranfoer

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walleye, a hero narrative would suit Johnson. He NEEDS that, after the year he's had. That's what I don't understand. He has the vaccine. it's a world-beating programme. He has a nation waiting for him to say, this is it. We did it. We're ready to get out there and show the world what we're made of. This is the narrative he was born for. And he isn't delivering it. Not because he lacks the hubris. It is NOT in his human nature to be risk averse. He's a libertarian and craves attention. There's nothing that would suit him more than standing in his fancy blue room delivering a rousing speech about how we fought it in the hospitals and we fought it in the laboratories and we fought it in the living room, and now, together, we have it beaten... We protected the vulnerable, and now our attention turns to protecting tomorrow, with the vaccine and with all of our combined efforts to build back normal. Or something.

I don't buy that we have a government in fear of public opinion. Public opinion is very much, WE ARE DONE NOW THANK YOU. There hasn't been a public more ready to hear some good news. He hasn't been afraid of getting it wrong in situations that, on paper, were very much worse than this, virus-wise. And I don't believe therefore he'd be fearful of the virus - our 'any death is one death too many' moment passed 13 months ago. We're cheerfully accepting of death, now, apparently. We're not afraid of people dying. Public mood is, if anything, you're going too slowly, mate.

I'm unsettled.
 

westie4566

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There is no great conspiracy. It's true that in every recession the rich get richer and the poor get poorer which leads to a widening of the gap.
It's also true that in every boom period, the rich get richer at an even faster rate, and the poorer get richer.
Which means the poor pay for every recession, which has always been the case since recessions became a real thing.

But no, there is no real reason for the very rich to limit their earning power for the sake of p1ssing everybody off and risking a big change to the status quo, which for the west means alternatives to global capitalism, which has served to line pockets for so so long.

It's just politicians without the will to lead us out of the recession on the back of a successful vaccine program. To be fair, we are seeing human nature at work here...they've been bashed from pillar to post for a year now, all the while watching the death counter creep up.....it's natural for the whole lot of them to be very risk averse in such circumstances.

For the benefit of good decision making, they must understand this and rather than do the safe thing, do the right thing, and have the kahunas to stand up and tell people why we are doing this....we have spent a year protecting the vulnerable, now protecting the vulnerable is the job of the vaccine and our focus must be the vulnerable of the future....the kids and young people we need to create jobs for so they have not just life, but real purposeful productive lives.
If you read back, you'll see that I started this discourse coming from a cynical point of view.

Much of what you write is correct as just as some of mine is.

The problem for us plebs is working out where the balance lies. As usual I reckon we're getting another shafting financially and this time without any 'fun' to take away the pain.

If only my forebears illgotten gains hadn't filtered down through three generations and been somewhat diluted in that time. 😄
 

salarchaser

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upload_2021-4-7_14-18-32.png
 

seeking

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SOS

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While E.U block the export of vaccines, the UK send 700k jabs to Australia.
 

Safranfoer

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Just seen an article on the Guido Fawkes site re : vaccine passports which I found thought provoking and a rather disturbing view of where things may be heading : worth a read I think , regardless of your views on whether you believe he is right or wrong on coronavirus itself : -

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/a-very-convenient-pandemic/
It's difficult to separate the two points though. In order to view any vaccine passport as more sinister than existing vaccine requirements for travel, you need to assume that the pandemic is manufactured/not a threat/a construct, not a reality - as the article does.

If you believe that the pandemic is a threat that needs to be contained and kept out of countries that have got on top of containment - the wind is taken out of the sails of objections like this article.
 

fixedspool

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Just seen an article on the Guido Fawkes site re : vaccine passports which I found thought provoking and a rather disturbing view of where things may be heading : worth a read I think , regardless of your views on whether you believe he is right or wrong on coronavirus itself : -

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/a-very-convenient-pandemic/
A great account of what is really going on in that article. As always most won't read it, understand it, never mind believe,it nevertheless its tells you exactly how it is and this realisation is gaining credence all the time all around the world which incidentally is never reported on the mainstream media. No change there then.
If you want lighter reading why not this; A coincidence?????

THE VIRUS by STANLEY JOHNSON!​

£9.99

OCTOBER 2020 - HAS BEEN A TOP 7 BOOK BEST-SELLER AT AMAZON!

"A deadly pandemic, a randy epidemiologist and an idiotic US president are all ingredients in Stanley Johnson's fast-paced thriller that turns out to have been 40 years ahead of its time” - Patrick Kidd, The Times

OUT NOW​

PAPERBACK​

400 PAGES​

 

Walleye

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Just seen an article on the Guido Fawkes site re : vaccine passports which I found thought provoking and a rather disturbing view of where things may be heading : worth a read I think , regardless of your views on whether you believe he is right or wrong on coronavirus itself : -

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/a-very-convenient-pandemic/
I could write an equally bnllsh1t filled article on how the relaxation of the law coming out of the pandemic will eventually lead to lawlessness and a total breakdown of society, with no rule of law, judiciary, governance, etc., therefore we should strengthen, not weaken government power.

But I won't, because slippery slope-ism is complete and utter bullshit, as that article demonstrates superbly well.

These d1ckheads just like playing with people. It's how they get their ego trips and tell themselves every day how important and how right they are, how "influential" they are. Its so important these days to be an "influencer" that there are 10's of thousands around the world sitting at computers or on their phones making a career out of bnllshit like that article.

What will happen will be the middle ground. We've swung one way during the pandemic, we'll swing another way afterwards, maybe 2-3 more gentle swings before we settle right back where we were in 2019.

That's boring though and won't get me a career as an influencer.
 

fixedspool

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I could write an equally bnllsh1t filled article on how the relaxation of the law coming out of the pandemic will eventually lead to lawlessness and a total breakdown of society, with no rule of law, judiciary, governance, etc., therefore we should strengthen, not weaken government power.

But I won't, because slippery slope-ism is complete and utter bullshit, as that article demonstrates superbly well.

These d1ckheads just like playing with people. It's how they get their ego trips and tell themselves every day how important and how right they are, how "influential" they are. Its so important these days to be an "influencer" that there are 10's of thousands around the world sitting at computers or on their phones making a career out of bnllshit like that article.

What will happen will be the middle ground. We've swung one way during the pandemic, we'll swing another way afterwards, maybe 2-3 more gentle swings before we settle right back where we were in 2019.

That's boring though and won't get me a career as an influencer.
Its not only boring its utter b+++++t too. Back where we were in 2019 ?. Come on and be honest. You don't believe that any more than most people do . You won't be able to write b+++++t either in the future. You will be a number, a nobody, dependant on the state for more or less everything. Not an influencer -not a visionary either that's for sure.
 

Safranfoer

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A great account of what is really going on in that article. As always most won't read it, understand it, never mind believe,it nevertheless its tells you exactly how it is and this realisation is gaining credence all the time all around the world which incidentally is never reported on the mainstream media. No change there then.
If you want lighter reading why not this; A coincidence?????

THE VIRUS by STANLEY JOHNSON!​

£9.99

OCTOBER 2020 - HAS BEEN A TOP 7 BOOK BEST-SELLER AT AMAZON!

"A deadly pandemic, a randy epidemiologist and an idiotic US president are all ingredients in Stanley Johnson's fast-paced thriller that turns out to have been 40 years ahead of its time” - Patrick Kidd, The Times

OUT NOW​

PAPERBACK​

400 PAGES​

Christ. If Stanley Johnson is the 'they' of which you speak, no wonder you're so scared of everything.
 

Elibank

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Its not only boring its utter b+++++t too. Back where we were in 2019 ?. Come on and be honest. You don't believe that any more than most people do . You won't be able to write b+++++t either in the future. You will be a number, a nobody, dependant on the state for more or less everything. Not an influencer -not a visionary either that's for sure.
Always good to get the opinion of someone with experience in these matters...
 

fixedspool

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Always good to get the opinion of someone with experience in these matters...
Usual one liner |Elibank. Is that the best you can do/
Christ. If Stanley Johnson is the 'they' of which you speak, no wonder you're so scared of everything.
Not scared of anything personally thanks. Thought that novel might be just up your street actually -chance for a good rant :whistle:
 

Auldghillie

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Its not only boring its utter b+++++t too. Back where we were in 2019 ?. Come on and be honest. You don't believe that any more than most people do . You won't be able to write b+++++t either in the future. You will be a number, a nobody, dependant on the state for more or less everything. Not an influencer -not a visionary either that's for sure.
What would you do then ? Go fishing ?
 

fixedspool

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What would you do then ? Go fishing ?
Yep. If allowed of course. If Rivers not pollutedby all the crap they are pouring in or the Packhams of this world don't get rule it out on grounds of cruelty etc./conservation etc.
There again could get a job on the'sustainable Scottish salmon farms perhaps or even a vaccine passport checking official at the local Morrisons.!!!
The latter has long terms prospects at least- universal wage though yet to be calculated.
 

Safranfoer

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I could write an equally bnllsh1t filled article on how the relaxation of the law coming out of the pandemic will eventually lead to lawlessness and a total breakdown of society, with no rule of law, judiciary, governance, etc., therefore we should strengthen, not weaken government power.

But I won't, because slippery slope-ism is complete and utter bullshit, as that article demonstrates superbly well.

These d1ckheads just like playing with people. It's how they get their ego trips and tell themselves every day how important and how right they are, how "influential" they are. Its so important these days to be an "influencer" that there are 10's of thousands around the world sitting at computers or on their phones making a career out of bnllshit like that article.

What will happen will be the middle ground. We've swung one way during the pandemic, we'll swing another way afterwards, maybe 2-3 more gentle swings before we settle right back where we were in 2019.

That's boring though and won't get me a career as an influencer.
There's a whole industry out there manufacturing outrage for clicks, and a load of gullible people falling for it. Strangely, it seems the more disparaging you are of social media and the role it plays in modern life, the more likely you are to fall for it.
 

Auldghillie

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Yep. If allowed of course. If Rivers not pollutedby all the crap they are pouring in or the Packhams of this world don't get rule it out on grounds of cruelty etc./conservation etc.
There again could get a job on the'sustainable Scottish salmon farms perhaps or even a vaccine passport checking official at the local Morrisons.!!!
The latter has long terms prospects at least- universal wage though yet to be calculated.
Yes, all very sad. Glad I’m out of it. AG
 

Walleye

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Its not only boring its utter b+++++t too. Back where we were in 2019 ?. Come on and be honest. You don't believe that any more than most people do . You won't be able to write b+++++t either in the future. You will be a number, a nobody, dependant on the state for more or less everything. Not an influencer -not a visionary either that's for sure.
With respect, old people have been saying that since, well, hundreds of years ago. You are just a modern form of luddite, completely and utterly predictable, unoriginal, nothing new, just another generation who believes the world is going to sh1t...And what happens? The world progresses, we get more freedoms, we live withing the rule of law which also progresses, governments get lighter touch, we get more spare time to spend on what we want, we get more money to spend on what we want and we have more choice on which to spend our time and money on, we get more opportunities.

Don't let it pass you by.
 
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