Coronavirus

fixedspool

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If the NHS didn’t exist and someone put it forward for a vote in parliament, which party would vote in favour? Think of that in the ballet box and whenever you listen to politicians talk about the NHS whichever way you vote

Edit, if you need a clue the Tories voted against it in 1948
But it does exist and no one has seriously suggested it will not continue. It's being paid for by the population anyway.
The fact Tories voted against it in 1948 has no relevance whatsoever/
 

ozzyian

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Did they not put accelerated funding in 3 or 4 years ago, seem to remember the medical community being a bit speachless about it.

The NHS is pretty much the biggest of all the political footballs, not least because there's 1.5 million voters in the organisation. I actually think its a bit depressing that all sides use it like that come election time. Should be one of those depoliticised things and we can all then get back to squabbling over muslim single mother drop in centre funding or what language the EU National Anthem should be in.
 

Safranfoer

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I think the accelerated funding thing needs to be taken with a little water.

Agree wholeheartedly that essential services should be depoliticised. I'd add Education to that. Are there any examples of countries that operate like this? Can it even work in practice?
 

peterchilton

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Sir Henry Urmston Willink, 1st Baronet, MC, PC, KC (7 March 1894 – 20 July 1973) was a British politician and public servant. A Conservative Member of Parliament from 1940, he became Minister of Health in 1943.[1] During his time in power he was appointed Special Commissioner for those made homeless by the London Blitz and was involved with the production of the Beveridge Report.[2]

The details of the report proposed a comprehensive free healthcare system, this led to the white paper 'A National Health Service',[3] published in 1944, suggesting the creation of such a service, which did not include the nationalisation of hospitals.[4] Such a policy was later implemented by the Labour Party through the creation of the National Health Service which differed to the proposals suggested by Willink.[5] At the time he claimed the nationalisation of voluntary hospitals "will destroy so much in this country that we value"
 

peterchilton

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Maybe Tories voted against Labour rather than against a health service in 1948 just as Labour vote against Tories now even if its a good policy ..... so maybe the 1948 vote was just politics?
 

Safranfoer

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Maybe Tories voted against Labour rather than against a health service in 1948 just as Labour vote against Tories now even if its a good policy ..... so maybe the 1948 vote was just politics?
All of that nonsense needs to stop too - and you're right, both parties do it. We don't vote for politics. Also - filibustering. That can get in the sea.
 
D

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OK if you want a recent example (July 2020) try Tory MPs voting down a bill to protect the NHS from being sold as part of future trade deals post Brexit? Then tell me what they really think about nationalising healthcare
 
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peterchilton

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'Roll-over agreements' July 2020
The government says that the trade bill, a new law that went before MPs on Monday, is about existing deals that the UK has with other countries via the European Union (EU) - and not about a future trade deal with the US.
Bernardine Adkins, a lawyer specialising in trade at Gowling law firm says: "The Trade Bill is concerned with the implementation of 'roll-over agreements', which are UK trade agreements with third countries with which the EU has existing trade agreements, to ensure continuity in trading relations."
But, while the powers the bill gave ministers did indeed only apply to roll-over agreements, the amendments (the extra bits that MPs wished to add) would have applied more widely.
The amendment to which Sir Keir was referring was summarised in the text as aiming "to protect the NHS and publicly-funded health and care services in other parts of the UK from any form of control from outside the UK".
It talked about maintaining a comprehensive health service free at the point of delivery, protecting the rights of health workers and regulating prices paid for drugs and medical devices.
There were also attempts to require all future trade deals to have a vote in Parliament, as well as requirements for maintaining food standards and environmental standards.
All were rejected in Parliament, which passed the bill but rejected the amendments.
The bill now has to go to the House of Lords (where another attempt to amend it could be made) before it becomes law.

Tories voted down a Labour Bill the same way that Labour would if they had enough MP's
 

fixedspool

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Thanks for that. Seems to me that any attempt by any party to destabilise the the NHS in any way from it's current form and way or operating would be committing electoral suicide. Can anyone really see that happening????
 

fixedspool

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Great to see that people are happy to accept that the government are monitoring us, controlling our movements and injecting us with microchip vaccines but don’t believe that a government would sell off the NHS ?
Well I am assuming of course that democracy continues in some form at present but as for the future who knows. Maybe the Government will not be elected by the people in the future but go down the Chinese or Russian mould. What then???
 

peterchilton

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Great to see that people are happy to accept that the government are monitoring us, controlling our movements and injecting us with microchip vaccines but don’t believe that a government would sell off the NHS ?
We are monitored by cameras and phones almost everywhere we go but the bill that you highlighted wasn't what you thought it was .... ;)
 

Toasted heretic

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VERDICT
False. A future COVID-19 vaccine will not genetically modify humans. DNA vaccines do not integrate the virus’ DNA into the cell nucleus of its recipient but instead inject part of the virus’ DNA/RNA into tissues to stimulate an immune response in the body.

This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team.


Thanks for the link, I had incorrectly assumed the new DNA vaccine to have a modality more in line with that of CRISPR, ancestral retroviruses etc.
 

DrPatrickT

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Thanks for that. Seems to me that any attempt by any party to destabilise the the NHS in any way from it's current form and way or operating would be committing electoral suicide. Can anyone really see that happening????

It’s an interesting point. The positive of Covid is that it has shown how awful most of our state bodies are (education, home office - mainly PHE/NHS). The political hot potato of the NHS - kicked down the road , year after year - has finally come home to roost. Irrespective of who is or could have been in power, it would have caused problems. It doesn’t work. Now I hope there is a CROSS PARTY attempt to address NHS and social care in an integrated and quality manner. No time for point scoring. The debacle of care homes shows how little we care for those who have contributed (for the most part) all their lives but are seen as a low priority to most. It needs a fundamental shake up - and I don’t mean privatisation - just better ‘Pre-cradle to grave’ Management. Investment in doers (front line staff), facilities. Make social care a more attractive job with better pay to attract more skilled workers in. Chop half the dead wood of management/quangos and advisory groups - Coordinate purchasing And logistics at regional levels etc. Get rid of PFI - an abuse of a funding model.

but do you know what, next year I can see the headlines already for November - hospital bed shortage due to Covid/ flu - because no one has the gumption to rock the boat. Too many people on a nice earner doing **** all.
 

Walleye

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Hands up who wants to pay loads more tax to splurge on the NHS for marginal gains?
 

DrPatrickT

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Hands up who wants to pay loads more tax to splurge on the NHS for marginal gains?

I posted a while back on this subject. If you knew it would deliver a better quality outcome then great all for it. There are elements that could And should be outsourced - ‘low value’ - but people get anxious at such words.

As an example of complete waste of tax payers money: my Dad lives in Corbridge, Hexham hospital is 3 miles away but has turned into more of a sorting office and limited emergency care; his nearest hospital is Rvi Newcastle. He gets hospital transport because he’s 80. The boffins at the NHS send a taxi driver from ALNWICK (50 miles North) to Corbridge to take him to Newcastle ( another 20 miles). And once treated, gets driven home - and driver goes back to Alnwick. I mean for God’s sake - even if they sent someone from Newcastle it would be cheaper.

So right now, With all the idiots in charge and a bloated corpse of a public institution, why would I want to piss into a black hole. I’d sit there thinking this is topping up pension pots for worthless management and chum salaries (dildo Harding can stick her test and trace where the sun don’t shine and hope it brings her no delight).

so that’s my answer
 

Andrew B

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David Icke actually said he was "a son of the godhead". Its been altered slightly in the telling.

In some Muslim countries they will not give Bill Gates's Polio vaccine to their children as their mullah (sp) has told
what an odd bloke he is lol. The thing is with David Icke is nobody can actually claim to know who he truly is or what his agenda is other than making bags full of money?
It’s so weird that there are certain channels on YouTube like London real ( run by a yank) and Epstein “journalist/ activist like Shaun Atwood all seem to hang on Ickes every word in a cult like fashion. I mean forget that he claimed to be a son of the Godhead in a shell suit and rather successfully managed to get Lizard people as an actual recognised thing, known throughout the world?
All that aside he’s actually someone we should all be listening too esp when it comes to all things Satanic?
Here’s what I think? He is without a shadow of a doubt imo, someone who is forced opposition to cater for a large, growing base of “truther” types and thus manage and control another group that’s separate from the red and blue, right or left paradigm.
It’s like Trump claiming to be a Christian? I find it incredible that David Iycke and Alex Jones ect both do the same boring old Masonic hand signs and symbols? So come on down and sign up today for our special super brain supplements on special offer today at the unbelievable price of $49.00 and “you too, can be just like us” lol
 

kingfisher

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THIS is exciting. I'm reminded of the end of the film Signs, and how the enemy is defeated - which I won't spoil if you haven't seen it (best jump scare in a film EVER)...
During this pandemic I’m gargling daily with 6 in 1 oral mouth wash to at least help the throat area.
Not got round to blowing it out my nose as yet lol
 

Safranfoer

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During this pandemic I’m gargling daily with 6 in 1 oral mouth wash to at least help the throat area.
Not got round to blowing it out my nose as yet lol
Makes a lot of sense. Good idea.

I love that the whole global economy could have been fritzed by something that can be killed by Listerine. 2020's scriptwriter is really having fun with us.
 

Occasional salmon fisher

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offshore

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THIS is exciting. I'm reminded of the end of the film Signs, and how the enemy is defeated - which I won't spoil if you haven't seen it (best jump scare in a film EVER)...

Face mask material seems quite absorbent; if I unavoidably have to go to my local hospital I will soak a bit of mouth wash on it. The b*gars wont be able to get through that lot.

Actually a mask with a gel coating doesn't seem such a bad idea, if you take this stuff seriously.
 
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offshore

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Much better to use neat bleach as recommended by a World leader ........
Poor old Trump got stitched up with that one. Everyone in the room had just watched a presentation on the effectiveness of UV and common disinfectants at killing the virus - he was just thinking aloud that it was a shame you couldn't get those agents inside the body. The BBC reported it in the standard high pitched, gob smacked, phony amazement voice - totally inappropriately if his comments had been placed in context. They weren't.
 
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