Coronavirus

Jockiescott

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I'll explain myself a bit better.

I really had not intended to fish this season. However, things seemed to be quietening down here with regards to covid so I bought my license 3 weeks ago.

In those three weeks, I have never encountered as many anglers at the river. Fishing in groups of three and four. Coming to gates and holding each others gear to the other gets over the gate or stile. Then away they go onto the next pool.

Sharing nets or one guy going down the pool with a fly rod while his mate goes down with the spinner then swapping rods and vice versa.

Sharing worm tubs and fly boxes and leader material etc.

There are confirmed cases of covid now, close to me, where there weren't at the height of pandemic. Yet, most people don't seem to care.

I have yet to see anyone with a bottle of hand sanitiser at the river. In fact, I got laughed at last week for using mine after getting over a gate.

When you live as close to river as I do, England is the least of my worries with regards to covid.
 

mows

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I'll explain myself a bit better.

I really had not intended to fish this season. However, things seemed to be quietening down here with regards to covid so I bought my license 3 weeks ago.

In those three weeks, I have never encountered as many anglers at the river. Fishing in groups of three and four. Coming to gates and holding each others gear to the other gets over the gate or stile. Then away they go onto the next pool.

Sharing nets or one guy going down the pool with a fly rod while his mate goes down with the spinner then swapping rods and vice versa.

Sharing worm tubs and fly boxes and leader material etc.

There are confirmed cases of covid now, close to me, where there weren't at the height of pandemic. Yet, most people don't seem to care.

I have yet to see anyone with a bottle of hand sanitiser at the river. In fact, I got laughed at last week for using mine after getting over a gate.

When you live as close to river as I do, England is the least of my worries with regards to covid.
I've got 2 bottles and 2 masks in every car.
Maybe habits I got in to in Singapore.
One thing this virus has shown me, is that we live a lock down equivalent life anyway.
I've now probably interacted with 30 people in 4 months and touched 8.
Yet I've been outside even more than usual.
 

Safranfoer

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Coronavirus and Vitamin D. I copied and pasted the article because of paywall:

Millions of Britons should be encouraged to take vitamin D supplements this winter because they could help fight the coronavirus, according to a report commissioned by the government’s chief scientific adviser.

In the review, ordered by Sir Patrick Vallance on how to stop hospitals being overwhelmed, the Academy of Medical Scientists urges ministers to bolster public health messages on vitamin D, known as the “sunshine” nutrient.

More than one in five Britons do not have enough in their bodies. With lockdown depriving many of sunlight — the main source of the vitamin, which is produced in skin exposed to the sun’s rays — levels are feared to have plunged even lower. The NHS says people should consider taking 10 micrograms of vitamin D a day during the pandemic.

The scientists’ report said: “It has been suggested that low levels of vitamin D — endemic within the UK, exacerbated by lockdown and which worsen over winter — may contribute to susceptibility to Covid-19 . . . Given the protective effects of vitamin D against respiratory tract infections and wider health benefits, the government should consider how to encourage the use of vitamin D this winter, particularly in vulnerable and low socioeconomic groups.”

Vitamin D deficiency in the UK, at 22%, is higher than in many other European countries and compares with 13.8% in Germany and 12.4% in Ireland. Some Nordic countries, including Sweden and Finland, fortify food such as bread and flour with vitamin D. In America, it has been added to cow’s milk for decades.

Vitamin D is essential for a healthy immune system. People usually make enough of it during summer by being exposed to sunlight. The process takes longer in those with darker skin, which blocks more ultraviolet radiation from the sun. In winter, vitamin D has to come from food, such as eggs, oily fish and mushrooms. It is difficult to eat enough to ingest the recommended dose.A study cited by the Academy of Medical Sciences, which was published in the British Medical Journal in 2017 and reviewed data from 25 trials, showed vitamin D can help prevent acute respiratory infections, particularly in those with a deficiency.Adrian Martineau — professor of respiratory infection and immunity at Queen Mary University of London, who led the study — is investigating whether vitamin D could protect against the coronavirus via the national Covidence UK study. In the meantime, its indirect effects will help protect Britons and the NHS. He said: “Anything that is going to stop somebody coming into hospital is going to reduce their risk of catching Covid-19 because we know that’s a potential site of transmission. There’s [also] a chance there could be benefit in terms of immune function, so it’s really a no-brainer to say that this is something that should be promoted.”


Charles Bangham, professor of immunology at Imperial College London and one of the authors of a Royal Society report on the coronavirus and vitamin D, said: “Our work has shown how vitamin D deficiency is more common in several groups most at risk of severe Covid-19, such as the elderly and people from [black and minority ethnic] groups, and has recommended stronger public guidance from the government on preventing deficiency. Preventing vitamin D deficiency may help to prevent severe Covid-19, but the most effective preventive measures are still physical distancing, face coverings and handwashing.”

Public Health England recommends vitamin D pills for those rarely outdoors, living in a care home or wearing clothes covering up most of their skin. People with dark skin should also consider taking supplements frequently.
 

FaughanPurple

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And as I said people are careless... but you cant say for sure its anglers causing the cases locally either.. without test and trace you're guessing at best.

Those small groups could be part of a bubble theyve formed and while perfectly ok under guidelines its also part of the problem too if individuals dont follow the basic interaction hygiene rules..

Most outbreaks have been linked to the food processing industry, schools or places where the public are indoors in high concentration like public transport.

If being outdoors in small groups was a major issue wed be seeing huge spikes in cases among footballers but we probably won't see that to spectators are back in stadiums.

I've used a bus twice since March.. both times with a mask.. neither comfortable
 

Jockiescott

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I didn't say it was anglers causing any of the cases but the complete care free attitude and disregard that most anglers, that I encounter, are showing to simple things like clean hands, along with the areas locally that now have cases, I fully expect that if one angler has covid, then many more will also.
 

Roag Fisher

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Which bit is bollox exactly?
The bit about England being the greatest threat. Easy to say, but not backed up with reality.
An example of what Scots have to put up with - "
On the 8th of July when Nicola Sturgeon EXCLUDED Spain from her list of air bridges, their daily new case rate was 383.

On the 20th of July when Nicola Sturgeon ADDED Spain to her list of air bridges, their daily new case rate had jumped to 1527."

or this sort of thing -

There are a myriad of other examples of how poorly managed the pandemic has been in Scotland. Nikeoliar runs a very slick media operation but the SNP (in reality the control freak Sturgeon) handling of covid has been full of mistakes (just the same as everywhere else).
Boris is an easy target as it is his lot that have to find the balance between the economy and lives. The other politicians can sit back and snipe. (edit....Starmer has gone quiet/missing?).
 
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FaughanPurple

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The bit about England being the greatest threat. Easy to say, but not backed up with reality.
An example of hat Scots have to put up with - "
On the 8th of July when Nicola Sturgeon EXCLUDED Spain from her list of air bridges, their daily new case rate was 383.

On the 20th of July when Nicola Sturgeon ADDED Spain to her list of air bridges, their daily new case rate had jumped to 1527."

or this sort of thing -

There are a myriad of other examples of how poorly managed the pandemic has been in Scotland. Nikeoliar runs a very slick media operation but the SNP (in reality the control freak Sturgeon) handling of covid has been full of mistakes (just the same as everywhere else).
Boris is an easy target as it is his lot that have to find the balance between the economy and lives. The other politicians can sit back and snipe. (edit....Starmer has gone quiet/missing?).

Like the Tory party dont control the media and Boris put the target on his own back with his cavalier attitude to it, a bit like Trump did too.. coincidence or???

Every country had to find the balance between economy and health.. those that picked health seem to be doing a bit better in controlling the spread

Starmer is looking like a bit of a stooge but that's a different topic altogether
 

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FaughanPurple

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If (and i dont know the answer) that sunlight is good at reducing the chances of catching covid,
Why is Florida getting so much cases?

Other sources of vitD

Get chapping those Salmon.
Good question.

Maybe to do with the ageing population as its known as a retirement state and the fact it was very slow to lock down, hosting beachparties etc.. it's looking completely over run atm
 

mows

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If (and i dont know the answer) that sunlight is good at reducing the chances of catching covid,
Why is Florida getting so much cases?

Other sources of vitD

Get chapping those Salmon.
College breaks were a big spreader. They had thousands everywhere, and inside.
Again, they aren't having the high deaths that we have had.
Even disney, the home of the never ending que is open!!!!
 

Jockiescott

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College breaks were a big spreader. They had thousands everywhere, and inside.
Again, they aren't having the high deaths that we have had.
Even disney, the home of the never ending que is open!!!!
I think timing has been a key factor in America's death rate. Had they had this many infections back in March, I suspect there would have been far more fatalities as so little was known about the disease.

I watched a report a few weeks ago from America and the hospitals had developed a cocktail of drugs that they gave to every person admitted with covid. Antibiotics and anti blood clotting drugs among others. Many hospitals had survival rates of 100%. It is only now when they are getting to levels that can't be easily managed that death rates have increased slightly.

Had the numbers now been treated purely as a pneumonia based disease, deaths would have been much higher.
 

offshore

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The bit about England being the greatest threat. Easy to say, but not backed up with reality.
An example of hat Scots have to put up with - "
On the 8th of July when Nicola Sturgeon EXCLUDED Spain from her list of air bridges, their daily new case rate was 383.

On the 20th of July when Nicola Sturgeon ADDED Spain to her list of air bridges, their daily new case rate had jumped to 1527."

or this sort of thing -

There are a myriad of other examples of how poorly managed the pandemic has been in Scotland. Nikeoliar runs a very slick media operation but the SNP (in reality the control freak Sturgeon) handling of covid has been full of mistakes (just the same as everywhere else).
Boris is an easy target as it is his lot that have to find the balance between the economy and lives. The other politicians can sit back and snipe. (edit....Starmer has gone quiet/missing?).
You could have a point. A lot of it is about perception.

Sturgeon seems more competent because she is a better communicator - clarity.

BJ seems to waffle and like good news stories - biggest, best , greatest, world leading. When it doesn't happen like that, you lose credibility.
 
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mows

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Singapore has had more cases than Scotland( 3 rd highest death rate in the world) over 4000 dead.
The vast majority of Singapore cases are in young healthy males working in the ship yards, living in communal sites.
Virtually no deaths in them.
Overall Singapore deaths 27!!!
Now this isn't like for like, you only get recorded as dying of Covid, if you do actually die because of covid.
Where as we count it if you die WITH covid.
From day one their treatment has been different with early intervention on cases, and not waiting till someone is effectively dead before treatment.
They are still getting over a hundred cases each day in th communal living sites which are effectively locked in.
However, the in community cases have been rising recently from about 10 a day to 20 a day.
Nearly all are asymptomatic and are only being detected because of proactive screening in critical jobs such as healthcare , teaching etc.
The biggest spreaders seem to have been communal living, religious gatherings, hotels and incommers.
They still haven't traced any cases back to the tube, where 1million use every day, though it does have good ventilation and just plastic for easy cleaning. Masks are compulsory now, but when I was there, only 25% were wearing masks on the tube, and still no cases traced back to there.
 

FaughanPurple

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One of those who've tested positive for covid in recent days here gave an interview on the radio this morning.

He was contacted by the PHA and advised to get a test when his friend, who he had played golf with, tested positive. It turns out that he and his partner have now both tested positive. Both are asymptomatic.

But, its alright if you're outside! 🙄

”Thankfully we haven’t had any symptoms. Ciaran plays a lot of sport and was getting his temperature checked regularly before training and we have never even had so much as a temperature.”

So Golf outside wasn't the only contact he had.. just where he might have got it.. if hes asymptomatic its possible he gave it to his golfing partner not the other way around but was only flagged when the other guy tested first..

No matter what guidelines are out there, it's still a risk we all are going to have to run eventually
 

Heero

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I ordered some new pigeons waterers and some new pigeon perches from Amazon back in early March. Both items coming from China.

I just received the waterers yesterday. No sign on the perches yet.

Coronavirus is ruining not only my life, but that of my feathered friends, too!
 

Jockiescott

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”Thankfully we haven’t had any symptoms. Ciaran plays a lot of sport and was getting his temperature checked regularly before training and we have never even had so much as a temperature.”

So Golf outside wasn't the only contact he had.. just where he might have got it.. if hes asymptomatic its possible he gave it to his golfing partner not the other way around but was only flagged when the other guy tested first..

No matter what guidelines are out there, it's still a risk we all are going to have to run eventually
That's neither here nor there. It wasn't the point I was trying to make.

We now have people thinking covid is a thing of the past. You only have to look at Facebook to see house parties and other gatherings taking place.

Most people seem to be asymptomatic so don't even know they have it so no reason to stay at home.

They're out here with not a care in the world. I don't care where they catch it. It's them bringing something out here that would not otherwise be here I have a problem with, as they show no regard for anyone else when they're here.

I'll be pulling the plug on fishing shortly. Its simply not worth the risk.
 

Safranfoer

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Singapore has had more cases than Scotland( 3 rd highest death rate in the world) over 4000 dead.
The vast majority of Singapore cases are in young healthy males working in the ship yards, living in communal sites.
Virtually no deaths in them.
Overall Singapore deaths 27!!!
Now this isn't like for like, you only get recorded as dying of Covid, if you do actually die because of covid.
Where as we count it if you die WITH covid.
From day one their treatment has been different with early intervention on cases, and not waiting till someone is effectively dead before treatment.
They are still getting over a hundred cases each day in th communal living sites which are effectively locked in.
However, the in community cases have been rising recently from about 10 a day to 20 a day.
Nearly all are asymptomatic and are only being detected because of proactive screening in critical jobs such as healthcare , teaching etc.
The biggest spreaders seem to have been communal living, religious gatherings, hotels and incommers.
They still haven't traced any cases back to the tube, where 1million use every day, though it does have good ventilation and just plastic for easy cleaning. Masks are compulsory now, but when I was there, only 25% were wearing masks on the tube, and still no cases traced back to there.
The interesting thing about your post - and maybe the reason why the deaths are so much lower - is that they tested and traced and knew where the cases were. There are no cases linked to the tube. We had absolutely no idea here for the whole of the worst of this first wave. We wouldn’t have been able to tell you granular information like that. Now we are slightly better and can identify outbreaks at call centres and the like. But surely a big part of the Singapore success story is the way you describe the handle they had on every case - and then yes, treating people before their lungs were cement.
 

peterchilton

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Treat people with what?

As for Vit D, it does seem to have a positive impact which is probably why, on scientific advice, the Government 'allowed' people out as many times a day as they liked once it got sunny, but only in England. It may well be that the general Vit D deficiency in england may be due to less sunlight or a diminished ability to produce vit D from sunlight due to things such as playing computer games and skin pigment and generally staying indoors. Its not the fresh air and clean water that helps its the sun.
 
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Safranfoer

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Thank you for explaining vitamin D and sunshine to me. I did share an article on it, but it’s good to have the point underlined.

Treatment - oxygen, rest, fluids if necessary. And latterly steroids. But in the early days of the pandemic, before steroids became a recognised treatment, Singapore was supporting patients way sooner than we were. We were advised to treat our symptoms at home and testing wasn’t conducted until we needed additional support. In Singapore at the start of the outbreak all patients were tested and taken to treatment centres if positive (that’s right yes, mows?). By the time most people get hospital/doctor involved in this country, their blood oxygen levels are so low there is already damage to organs. People don’t feel breathless until they’re in a really bad way. This can be remedied with early intervention to support the system while the immune system does what it can against the virus.

It should be noted I was originally responding to a point made by mows on the low death rates in Singapore and pondering why.
 
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