Care home vaccine refusers.

westie4566

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Some scientists had already said that it’s so dangerous that it could lead to something that could wipe out human kind.
As you know my “thing” from the very beginning was that it was all started with a lie as to it’s origins and as Fauchi is a politician he’s really lied to Congress as his own organisation have said it was gain of function but because he’s saint Fauchi he’s essentially re defined the definition of it.
So I understand that if SARS originated in Wuhan then naturally you would go to the source to look into it, but in taking a virus only found in bats and trying to manipulate it so it gains the function of infecting humans seems like something out-of Frankenstein imo?
I think it was Obama who actually deemed it too dangerous and didn’t want it on his watch so to speak, which makes you wonder how much Trump knew, when he said he had intel to call it the China virus (lol that man cracked me up)

I do find it interesting though seeing these things play out, as it always seems that those who shout the loudest about how great they are, both Cuomo and Fauchi have had various books, films and awards about how well they handled things. One has been taken down for inappropriate behaviour around women( not the thousands of care home deaths that he lied about) and now Fauchi has even been turned on by those who loved him after seeing a video, which I can’t bring myself to watch about him funding a lab that did cruel acts on two Beagles by subjecting them to what I can only describe as torture? That’s what one lab did to get more funding off Fauchis organisation.

Course it doesn’t change where we’re at? But when they talk of being transparent it’s like being kicked in the teeth imo and imo the fact that it’s taken cruelty to dogs over people to make his own followers turn on him is kinda weird but is something I can understand lol.
Yup, so, so many lies told, been caught out on and still propagated.

To swing this back to the original thrust of this thread. Perhaps those health care workers refusing the jab are refusing it not because they are stupid, or are being manipulated by religious leaders but have actually read all this, then looked at the UK Yellow Card scheme and US Vaers scheme and thought, 'whoa, can we just hold off a bit before getting this vaccine until more is known'. The decision that is costing them their jobs.

I really don't find that an unreasonable reaction. I'm hoping someone on here can point me in the direction of any other vaccine in history that has caused so much damage in such a short time? No NOT gleaned from some nutter on t'intenet but straight from the published data by the UK and US Govts. It's there for all to see, if you want.

I know the side effects I've had since being vaxxed, I now bruise, just for the sake of bruising. Anything that causes an open wound takes for ever to heal. I have the remnants of a scar, still bruised on my leg that I've had since July. It was a minor scuff. Doc can't find any reason for this whatsoever. It may not have been the jab, but it's darned coincidental.

One of my closest pals started having horrific headaches, day on day. First visit to GP and was put on anti migraine meds. They made no difference. So natch sent for scans. This scared the bejesus out of him as his Mum died of a brain tumour. He's in Germany and the Docs were very frank after two sets of scans that his headaches were a side effect oh the vax.
 

tenet

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Westie - With over 50 million folk over the age of 12 having at least 1 jab any problems would have manifested themselves by now. Any and all drugs have some side effects albeit in a very very small number of folk.
Have a read here : https://www.drugs.com/sfx/ibuprofen-side-effects.html
This is a very commonly used over the counter drug used by countless millions.
 

Birkin

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Dee, no offence, did you actually look at what I posted? Or did you you just put your own spin on the data?

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your family and friends being struck down by C19. You really seem to be in the centre of a wee s'hit storm of it. I hope all get better soon.

I guess I'm lucky, of all my big list of pals here and world wide, there's been only five cases of C19 amongst them all, none serious or ever needing hospitalisation.

I have no idea why that should be...in fact one of my closest of friends who got it back in Feb this year should be a gonner. She's 73, smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish and still does bank nursing at her local cottage hospital. When I heard she'd got it I genuinely thought she'd be done for. Nah, she felt mildly flu-y for a few days and was back on the front line 2 weeks later.

Enjoyed her company in Berlin for a week back in August and she was hale and hearty. The tails she told about what staff were ordered to put on death certificates disgusted me as much as it disgusted her having to do it.
A nurse writing out death certificates?
 

westie4566

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Westie - With over 50 million folk over the age of 12 having at least 1 jab any problems would have manifested themselves by now. Any and all drugs have some side effects albeit in a very very small number of folk.
Have a read here : https://www.drugs.com/sfx/ibuprofen-side-effects.html
This is a very commonly used over the counter drug used by countless millions.
Tenet, I fully appreciated that any drug can have side effects, some mild, some severe. However, have you actually looked at the UK Yellow Card scheme and the US Vaers scheme?
 

westie4566

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A nurse writing out death certificates?

Nope but they were 'ordered' what to tell the attending Doc. As we all know, it's not always possible to have a Doc present at the actual time of death, even in a hosp. scenario.

I remember well the day my old Dad passed, in the end it all happened so quickly that I had 5 mins between getting the call to get to the hosp and the call saying he'd gone. There wasn't a Doc present, just the ward sister who thankfully was an old school chum and had known my Dad since she was a bairn. It comforts me that he had a weel kent friendly face with him in his final moments.
 
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Andrew B

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Yup, so, so many lies told, been caught out on and still propagated.

To swing this back to the original thrust of this thread. Perhaps those health care workers refusing the jab are refusing it not because they are stupid, or are being manipulated by religious leaders but have actually read all this, then looked at the UK Yellow Card scheme and US Vaers scheme and thought, 'whoa, can we just hold off a bit before getting this vaccine until more is known'. The decision that is costing them their jobs.

I really don't find that an unreasonable reaction. I'm hoping someone on here can point me in the direction of any other vaccine in history that has caused so much damage in such a short time? No NOT gleaned from some nutter on t'intenet but straight from the published data by the UK and US Govts. It's there for all to see, if you want.

I know the side effects I've had since being vaxxed, I now bruise, just for the sake of bruising. Anything that causes an open wound takes for ever to heal. I have the remnants of a scar, still bruised on my leg that I've had since July. It was a minor scuff. Doc can't find any reason for this whatsoever. It may not have been the jab, but it's darned coincidental.

One of my closest pals started having horrific headaches, day on day. First visit to GP and was put on anti migraine meds. They made no difference. So natch sent for scans. This scared the bejesus out of him as his Mum died of a brain tumour. He's in Germany and the Docs were very frank after two sets of scans that his headaches were a side effect oh the vax.
I was unaware of the yellow flag thing and after my experience I just thought it’s so difficult now to go and talk with a Doctor who you have known for years and that I couldn’t be bothered with the phone consultation, that I just let it go, but I was in a bad state by tea time with painful cramps all over and migraine like a hammer blow really.
I’m fine now but I am aware that we are all taking part in real time a thing made “at Warp Speed” and whilst I believe it was made in good faith and is worth having, there has been some problems with certain brands, which is not something I ever doubt when having the flu jab?
 

Safranfoer

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What damage *has* the vaccine caused, Westie…? And what damage has it prevented?

When you have your kids vaccinated, mums are advised to give them calpol half an hour before and to expect them to be grizzly and feverish for about 48 hours afterwards, with runny nappies. Remember how painful the TB jab was when we were kids, and how ropey it made you feel…? Agony if anyone even brushed that arm, for weeks. Headaches and dodgy tummies. Maybe it’s just that lots of people have forgotten that vaccines have always resulted in side effects? The yellow flag system is brilliant for aggregating the known side effects and spotting patterns, but how many of these overlap with the side effects of every other vaccine, and how many anecdotally reported symptoms do we reckon are correlation not causation?
 
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tenet

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Tenet, I fully appreciated that any drug can have side effects, some mild, some severe. However, have you actually looked at the UK Yellow Card scheme and the US Vaers scheme?
Hi Westie - had a look this morning and this seemed to be the conclusion:

For all COVID-19 vaccines, detailed review of all reports has found that the overwhelming majority relate to injection site reactions (sore arm for example) and generalised symptoms such as a ‘flu-like’ illness, headache, chills, fatigue (tiredness), nausea (feeling sick), fever, dizziness, weakness, aching muscles, and rapid heartbeat. Generally, these happen shortly after the vaccination and are not associated with more serious or lasting illness. These types of reaction reflect the acute immune response

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to worry about and I am happily going for my booster tomorrow.
 

Salad Dodger

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My new Epilepsy medication runs the risk of me developing Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, my skin can form blisters, then die and drop off, but more importantly, it does stop my seizures.

As with all medicines, you balance the benefits against the side effects, As tenet has posted, the covid jab benefits far outweigh the mild, short term side effects.

It makes me question what care home staff have been told about the vaccine and by whom. If the care home system was fully staffed, the effect of staff leaving, due to vaccine refusal, would be manageable and the benefits of having fully vaccinated staff would outweigh the potential risks.

However, as the care home system was already very understaffed, and more so now following the new law on care home staff vaccination, the loss of more of the workforce may well tip the risk balance, the wrong way.

Did government consider this? Answers on a postcard.

On the up side, if my skin does start dropping off, I reckon I've got about 22 years to live.🤣
 
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westie4566

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Nope... but they were ordered what to tell the attending Doc. (y)

What damage *has* the vaccine caused, Westie…? And what damage has it prevented?

When you have your kids vaccinated, mums are advised to give them calpol half an hour before and to expect them to be grizzly and feverish for about 48 hours afterwards, with runny nappies. Remember how painful the TB jab was when we were kids, and how ropey it made you feel…? Agony if anyone even brushed that arm, for weeks. Headaches and dodgy tummies. Maybe it’s just that lots of people have forgotten that vaccines have always resulted in side effects? The yellow flag system is brilliant for aggregating the known side effects and spotting patterns, but how many of these overlap with the side effects of every other vaccine, and how many anecdotally reported symptoms do we reckon are correlation not causation?
Just go and look and the Govt's yellow card scheme (y) The US Vaers one is a bit worrying - larger country though.
 

ozzyian

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We all know that there are big problems in the care sector anyway, it's rarely out of the news.

Wasn't it the case that there has been one of those British sleight of hands in how care homes are funded and operated involving property ownership structures designed to maximise profit away from the home at the expense of (non property) running costs?

The upshot being it costs £50 -100k per year per place - the majority of which ends up falling to the local authority (ie spread across the tax payers) as the residents assets have long been distributed amongst the offspring to avoid the liability of fees falling on the resident.

That seems to me to be an astronomical amount of money especially when it turns out the staff are being paid washers. No wonder some are p!ssed off and prone to truculence. Doesn't excuse their position on vaccination imho however the care home problem is a lot bigger than the currant news and as usual it's private capital that is at the bottom of it.
 

westie4566

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Hi Westie - had a look this morning and this seemed to be the conclusion:

For all COVID-19 vaccines, detailed review of all reports has found that the overwhelming majority relate to injection site reactions (sore arm for example) and generalised symptoms such as a ‘flu-like’ illness, headache, chills, fatigue (tiredness), nausea (feeling sick), fever, dizziness, weakness, aching muscles, and rapid heartbeat. Generally, these happen shortly after the vaccination and are not associated with more serious or lasting illness. These types of reaction reflect the acute immune response

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to worry about and I am happily going for my booster tomorrow.
Did you scroll down a bit?:) Now I'm not saying to anyone not to get vaxxed, I am myself. Do the risks outweigh the benefits, time will tell, On numbers alone they do, however I guess that's no comfort to the families who've lost someone due to fatal adverse reaction.

The reason I say time will tell is that no-one knows if there will be any hidden side effects in the future. I blooming well hope not!!
 

westie4566

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We all know that there are big problems in the care sector anyway, it's rarely out of the news.

Wasn't it the case that there has been one of those British sleight of hands in how care homes are funded and operated involving property ownership structures designed to maximise profit away from the home at the expense of (non property) running costs?

The upshot being it costs £50 -100k per year per place - the majority of which ends up falling to the local authority (ie spread across the tax payers) as the residents assets have long been distributed amongst the offspring to avoid the liability of fees falling on the resident.

That seems to me to be an astronomical amount of money especially when it turns out the staff are being paid washers. No wonder some are p!ssed off and prone to truculence. Doesn't excuse their position on vaccination imho however the care home problem is a lot bigger than the currant news and as usual it's private capital that is at the bottom of it.
We should get together and open a granny farm, we'd be able to retire in a couple of years:p
 

tenet

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Hi again Westie - just looked at the US site. Not really sure why you raised concerns when they report just 0.0022% deaths after circa 430 million jabs, just 2 cases of thrombosis after 409 million and just 250 folk affected by GBS (an immune disorder) the majority of which recover.
Thankfully the vast majority of folk can see through the scare stories and trust the science rather than the whataboutery that you have posted.

Edit ; I did scroll down and the copy and paste posted at #134 are based their conclusions.
 
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Safranfoer

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Just go and look and the Govt's yellow card scheme (y) The US Vaers one is a bit worrying - larger country though.
I've looked before - thrombosis (yes there's a link), Bell's Palsy (no link)...

Now have a look at the Yellow Card Scheme summaries for all the other vaccines we routinely administer, and remember to compare the scale of the vaccination programme:

Then have a look at the number of thrombosis incidents/fatalities each year caused by hormonal birth control.

IMO the only valid reason to reject the covid vaccine is if you're an anti-vaxxer full stop, because there's nothing about this one that's more or less risky than the others.
 

westie4566

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Hi again Westie - just looked at the US site. Not really sure why you raised concerns when they report just 0.0022% deaths after circa 430 million jabs, just 2 cases of thrombosis after 409 million and just 250 folk affected by GBS (an immune disorder) the majority of which recover.
Thankfully the vast majority of folk can see through the scare stories and trust the science rather than the whataboutery that you have posted.

Edit ; I did scroll down and the copy and paste posted at #134 are based their conclusions.

I've looked before - thrombosis (yes there's a link), Bell's Palsy (no link)...

Now have a look at the Yellow Card Scheme summaries for all the other vaccines we routinely administer, and remember to compare the scale of the vaccination programme:

Then have a look at the number of thrombosis incidents/fatalities each year caused by hormonal birth control.

IMO the only valid reason to reject the covid vaccine is if you're an anti-vaxxer full stop, because there's nothing about this one that's more or less risky than the others.
Thanks, will have a look later.

I'm not and haven't as I've been at pains to say all along. Perhaps I worry too much.

Quick question re other vaccines, do you know if their manufacturers have been given complete indemnity against any come back as well?

As I said up thread. That was a 'thing' that raised my eyebrows a bit.
 

Safranfoer

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Thanks, will have a look later.

I'm not and haven't as I've been at pains to say all along. Perhaps I worry too much.

Quick question re other vaccines, do you know if their manufacturers have been given complete indemnity against any come back as well?

As I said up thread. That was a 'thing' that raised my eyebrows a bit.
Other vaccines developed on an accelerated timeline have indemnities, yes. Most notably, the smallpox vaccine.

I know you're not an anti-vaxxer and have indeed had your jabs, but I do feel part of the vax debate problem is people playing 'devil's advocate' and sowing doubts in less rigorous minds.

You've had your jabs. You looked at the Yellow Card reports, you assessed the risk, you made a decision. You are vaccinated.

But by putting content out there suggesting that the vaccine is dangerous, anyone that doesn't know you, doesn't read back through pages of a thread, or comes across arguments like yours made by other people elsewhere - they'll just see that the vaccine is deadly/risky, not do any leg work, not understand the nuance of your position. I personally feel like we need to be careful what we say and write in order to avoid perpetuating the problem of vaccine uptake in some quarters.
 

Birkin

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Safranfoer

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Good luck telling her family the jabs are safe.
Her husband Gareth was on the radio a few weeks ago and supports the vaccine, even now, with the caveat around giving women the choice between AZ and Pfizer - it's AZ that is more likely to cause a thrombosis. That choice is (semi) reflected in the current administration of the vaccine. Women under 40 now receive Pfizer. Women over 40 may receive either - because their risk from covid is so much more elevated.

The clotting thing is probably scarier to men than women - drugs many of us regularly take come with a much higher risk than the vaccine, many of us have already made that risk analysis. Anyone who is super concerned about thrombosis though should revert to using condoms as birth control if their partners are on hormonal contraceptives.
 
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Andrew B

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Thanks, will have a look later.

I'm not and haven't as I've been at pains to say all along. Perhaps I worry too much.

Quick question re other vaccines, do you know if their manufacturers have been given complete indemnity against any come back as well?

As I said up thread. That was a 'thing' that raised my eyebrows a bit.
Better not to watch that esteemed scientist Bill Gates smiling on CNN then😂
 
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