Better Spinning...

gcp1987

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Putting the general fly v spinning debate aside for the moment, there are certain times and places, particularly down south where using a Flying C or similar is the only viable option to fish. Often casting upstream and bringing round to get deep.

Now we are locked down, aside from tying flies like mad I am having a bit of a clear out / tackle review and want to improve the way I spin (when I do spin which is relatively infrequently) so that the least possible damage is done to the fish. I am not convinced that the bog standard flying c's / mepps etc on offer in the UK are necessarily the way forward.

The Danish have a lot of slow deep rivers where they spin and they seem to be way ahead of us in terms of the thinking and spinning products on offer, also using much smaller stronger hooks.

I have looked at Helicopter rigs (see video below) but am not totally convinced, I could be persuaded otherwise:
See this vid

Spintec sell a "helicopter mount" which I might try- has anyone used these? Would mean dismantling most of the lures I have and remaking but I have plenty of time on my hands....

Finally I stumbled on a "Line Through" spinner (see link below) which looks to me to be a great idea. Would enable the use of a comparatively very small treble in size 10 or 12, the lure body slides up when playing a fish so there is no leverage/ damage, and removal of hook is easier if it is taken deeply. Very worst case scenario cut the line and leave the small treble in the fish.

Has anyone got any experience with these lures or similar techniques?
I have a great Mchardys kit which is still going and I have been making up flying c's with single hooks but still feel this can be improved on.
Any advice or thoughts welcomed.
Cheers, Guy
 

Rrrr

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Id be more inclined to fish them with a decent circle type lure single. At least if fishing upstream and they nail it you have a good chance of getting it out compared to a small trebble.

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The flying Scotsman

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Putting the general fly v spinning debate aside for the moment, there are certain times and places, particularly down south where using a Flying C or similar is the only viable option to fish. Often casting upstream and bringing round to get deep.

Now we are locked down, aside from tying flies like mad I am having a bit of a clear out / tackle review and want to improve the way I spin (when I do spin which is relatively infrequently) so that the least possible damage is done to the fish. I am not convinced that the bog standard flying c's / mepps etc on offer in the UK are necessarily the way forward.

The Danish have a lot of slow deep rivers where they spin and they seem to be way ahead of us in terms of the thinking and spinning products on offer, also using much smaller stronger hooks.

I have looked at Helicopter rigs (see video below) but am not totally convinced, I could be persuaded otherwise:
See this vid

Spintec sell a "helicopter mount" which I might try- has anyone used these? Would mean dismantling most of the lures I have and remaking but I have plenty of time on my hands....

Finally I stumbled on a "Line Through" spinner (see link below) which looks to me to be a great idea. Would enable the use of a comparatively very small treble in size 10 or 12, the lure body slides up when playing a fish so there is no leverage/ damage, and removal of hook is easier if it is taken deeply. Very worst case scenario cut the line and leave the small treble in the fish.

Has anyone got any experience with these lures or similar techniques?
I have a great Mchardys kit which is still going and I have been making up flying c's with single hooks but still feel this can be improved on.
Any advice or thoughts welcomed.
Cheers, Guy
Leaving a hook in a salmon will kill it.
I've seen evidence of this.
 

gcp1987

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Id be more inclined to fish them with a decent circle type lure single. At least if fishing upstream and they nail it you have a good chance of getting it out compared to a small trebble.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Thats a good shout, I have been using Cox and Rawle inline single hooks with a microbarb on a split ring attached to the bottom of a flying C and if those hooks were used with an "inline" flying c would be even better to remove if deeply hooked.
 

gcp1987

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Leaving a hook in a salmon will kill it.
I've seen evidence of this.
edited: Are we talking over months/years? I'd be interested to know more. If leaving a hook in at least gives the fish a chance to spawn its probably better than bashing it. But very aware that this is obviously the worst worst case scenario
 
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The flying Scotsman

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I'll be completely honest I wasn't aware of this, are we talking over months/years? I'd be interested to hear more
I posted this on another thread lately.
I was on the Tay fishponds last year and there was a dead salmon high teens and when the ghilie examined it it had a bit leader inside its mouth and a wee double was stuck fairly deep in the fishes mouth. The guy obviously didn't have clamps with him so just cut his line and returned the fish.
Ghillie remembered who had landed a fish that size a couple days before and wasn't happy at all.
 

Maggy

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I posted this on another thread lately.
I was on the Tay fishponds last year and there was a dead salmon high teens and when the ghilie examined it it had a bit leader inside its mouth and a wee double was stuck fairly deep in the fishes mouth. The guy obviously didn't have clamps with him so just cut his line and returned the fish.
Ghillie remembered who had landed a fish that size a couple days before and wasn't happy at all.
Can’t comment on salmon myself but the C & R fanatics claim they can survive. There‘s plenty of tales in old books of course, including one fish lost on the Wye on the prawn and landed a few days later - probably within Grimble.

However, I can safely verify it in river trout but many years ago, hooks appear to rust away eventually
 

The flying Scotsman

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Can’t comment on salmon myself but the C & R fanatics claim they can survive. There‘s plenty of tales in old books of course, including one fish lost on the Wye on the prawn and landed a few days later - probably within Grimble.

However, I can safely verify it in river trout but many years ago, hooks appear to rust away eventually
I've seen footage of trout removing flies themselves. It just kept diving and thumping the eye of the river bed until it popped out.
But seen a big dead salmon too
 

SteveG

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When we were kids we would check any dead fish we found in season to see if there was a spinner in its mouth and we found a few

move caught big brown trout with hooks left I their guts with line hanging out their mouth when worm fishing

the worst thing you can do is use stainless hooks in sea fishing, one old guy would tell me regularly that once they are in they are not going anywhere, but look how many people frown about the use of braid these days 🤔
 

Maggy

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When we were kids we would check any dead fish we found in season to see if there was a spinner in its mouth and we found a few

move caught big brown trout with hooks left I their guts with line hanging out their mouth when worm fishing

the worst thing you can do is use stainless hooks in sea fishing, one old guy would tell me regularly that once they are in they are not going anywhere, but look how many people frown about the use of braid these days 🤔
You make a shrewd point there. It also points to why it would be rare for ordinary hook to rust away in a salmon but we‘ve found them in trout - no time to rust away unless left in a Parr probably.
 
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sgellert

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The main reason for the helicopter style rigs popularity in Denmark, is that we have very strict regulations on hook size.
Trebles are max gape 7mm, which is around size 6, and singles 10mm, which is about size 2.
With these small hooks and rather large FC's around 15-25 grams, the helicopter rig ensures the hook isn't completely covered by the spinner.
 

Richardgw

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Like the idea of moving the hook closer to the blade as reduces the chance of deep hooking when the lure is taken from behind. However, we can't use the helicoper rig in Wales as for spinners we are restricted to barbless single hooks only .
 

iainmortimer

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As Flying C's often result in deep hooking, I'd have though it more logical to mount a single as far up the lure as possible. Soft plastics used for sea and pike fishing do so and I can't see why the Flying C concept couldn't be adapted to do the same.
 

Maggy

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As Flying C's often result in deep hooking, I'd have though it more logical to mount a single as far up the lure as possible. Soft plastics used for sea and pike fishing do so and I can't see why the Flying C concept couldn't be adapted to do the same.
I doubt any other arrangement is possible. Bin em I suggest.
 

gcp1987

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The main reason for the helicopter style rigs popularity in Denmark, is that we have very strict regulations on hook size.
Trebles are max gape 7mm, which is around size 6, and singles 10mm, which is about size 2.
With these small hooks and rather large FC's around 15-25 grams, the helicopter rig ensures the hook isn't completely covered by the spinner.
I didn't actually realise this was the case- thanks for the info. Makes a lot of sense- probably better to hook a fish with a very small strong treble than with a large heavy/thick wired single... but perhaps not if there is a chance that the fish will engulf the lure and "staple" the fish's mouth/throat together
 

gcp1987

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As Flying C's often result in deep hooking, I'd have though it more logical to mount a single as far up the lure as possible. Soft plastics used for sea and pike fishing do so and I can't see why the Flying C concept couldn't be adapted to do the same.
Makes a lot of sense to me - perhaps the lead "bullet" in a flying C could have a cut taken out of it in which a single hook could somehow nest...

This evening I dug out some very thin plastic tube and managed to construct a sort of "line through" flying c. It looks good but I don't know if the blade will actually spin properly as it will only be supported by the plastic tube and line inside that... I quite like having the single circle hook coming out at the back and like a tube fly having the lure slide up should mean easier unhooking and less leverage/damage to the fish when fighting. not sure where I will be able to try it out right now!

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jimmythefish

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Absolutely don’t leave a hook in a fish lads,as my buddy says TFS ( the flying scotsman) it WILL kill it) get your self a pair of long nosed forceps and they’ll take out every hook from John a groats and back,cost you around £4 on eBay, my auld mate tam caught 9 fish last year and every time struggled with his fingers down the Salmon’s throat to retrieve the hook,I have a pair of long nosed forceps on a zinger on my right hand chest and stretched them out to him,he had the hook out in about 1 point 2 seconds,so told him to send aff for a pair,guess what, He’s STILL using his fingers,you just can’t talk to some people,BUT then again,TAM’S a canny auld craw “ he’s probably waiting on me to hand him my foreceps 😃,no part with the money ya see !
 

Rrrr

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Absolutely don’t leave a hook in a fish lads,as my buddy says TFS ( the flying scotsman) it WILL kill it) get your self a pair of long nosed forceps and they’ll take out every hook from John a groats and back,cost you around £4 on eBay, my auld mate tam caught 9 fish last year and every time struggled with his fingers down the Salmon’s throat to retrieve the hook,I have a pair of long nosed forceps on a zinger on my right hand chest and stretched them out to him,he had the hook out in about 1 point 2 seconds,so told him to send aff for a pair,guess what, He’s STILL using his fingers,you just can’t talk to some people,BUT then again,TAM’S a canny auld craw “ he’s probably waiting on me to hand him my foreceps ,no part with the money ya see !
I got a decent set of mitten clamps with scissors from ebay last season and have found them easier again for gettting hooks out. Ive still got forecepts clamped to my jacket pocket aswel but the clamps dont flex as much and once clicked closed the hooks coming out for sure.

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sneakypeter

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Like the idea of moving the hook closer to the blade as reduces the chance of deep hooking when the lure is taken from behind. However, we can't use the helicoper rig in Wales as for spinners we are restricted to barbless single hooks only .
The Helicopter set up works with single hooks!
 

Isisalar

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Re fish survival when lost.
Years ago fishing the Queen mother reservoir, in about 50ft of water I hooked a fish in the classic way just as the fly was heading upwards from the bottom. Felt like a pretty good one and was fighting quite hard, when I'd got it up to the surface the fun really started. This thing was making long very fast runs and repeatedly diving for the bottom, it was certainly the hardest fighting Rainbow I ever caught from there or anywhere else. The oddest thing was the speed, far faster than anything else and these fish were the closest thing to Steelhead you could find. I'd had them up to 8lb.
Imagine my surprise when it was netted to find it was only about 3lb. Then noticed that there was around 8ft of nylon coming from its vent.
C&R was unknown then in fact it was forbidden and a priest was always carried. No barbless, rank barbed pre 'chemically sharpened' hooks that needed sharpening.
Having given it the goodnight kiss, eventually it was gutted and the line was attached to a size 8 longshank Viva lure in the stomach.
Work out how that happened!
 

sneakypeter

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Basically the same set up as in the video link, but I put a ringed swivel in the mount below the blade and tied in a single hook, sits in the same place as the small treble. The method shown in the video is as good as any, try it.
 
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