About Scandi and Skagit lines

Tangled

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Just thought I'd plonk this link here I found it useful untangling salmon line terminology.

it's very American and very slanted towards skagit, I suspect a Northern European view would be far more equally balanced, but having said that, it tells the story.


If anyone has any other half-decent reading material on salmon lines I'd be grateful

Possibly a less Skagit slanted view from Simon Gawesworth of RIO. After the initial introduction - which is useful - it gets into selling RIO lines so take that with a pinch of fluff.


And another on that's not selling anything

 
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Rennie

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As ever the "Mercan" bias shines through, if it's not a "Sca jit", then its not a Fly line.There's only one way to fish a fly deep, every one knows that and you can't fish a big heavy flee off a "Scan dee" line!.
As far as untangling line terminology go's, well if one invents and over complicates that terminology, then one has to un complicate it, dosen't one!.Take your lines out of the box that says Rio, and things suddenly get a lot easier!.
As far as 1/2 decent reading material go's, well try the Beano or the Dandy, greater intellectual content!.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Pedro.
 

Rennie

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Sorry Tangled, as soon as I saw the word Rio, I lost the will to live with that one!.
Please refer to my original reply to the thread and multiply by a significant amount!
Pedro.
 

Tangled

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I'm beginning to think you may not being very objective....
 

rs2ford

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Its the price of their lines that gets me. It got silly when they were pushing £50 but £100+ is just daylight robbery.
Cheers Diarmid.
 

chriswjx

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Another rookie question onto this, see how they say your best throwing heavy flies on skagit. What's defined as a heavy fly? Copper tubes over a certain length? Or are we talking tungsten tubes? No one seems to like to answer that 😅

Also, talking about rio making things complicated... they've just launched 2 new skagit heads, why? Probably just because they can...
 

Tangled

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Well unless someone here takes the time to create a balanced and unbiased article about these things, we're stuck with marketing stuff and random blogs.
 

lefthandup

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Well, I was throwing a line with my maxcatch skagit and Shakespeare oricle 13'9 yesterday and my mate had his loop cross and Rio skagit...he's a very good caster btw... but we both agreed that there was little between the two set ups.
 

rs2ford

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Another rookie question onto this, see how they say your best throwing heavy flies on skagit. What's defined as a heavy fly? Copper tubes over a certain length? Or are we talking tungsten tubes? No one seems to like to answer that 😅

Also, talking about rio making things complicated... they've just launched 2 new skagit heads, why? Probably just because they can...
I find that most Scandi lines will cast and turnover copper tubes up to 2 inch but any bigger or heavier and they start to struggle. I prefer multi tip lines such as the Rio Scandi versitip or the Gaelforce multi tip when fishing deeper/quicker as opposed to a skagit as the presentation is better unless using tungsten tips in Spring. That's when the skagit comes into its own. Dont use them often but a nice option to have all the same.
Cheers Diarmid.
 

chriswjx

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I find that most Scandi lines will cast and turnover copper tubes up to 2 inch but any bigger or heavier and they start to struggle. I prefer multi tip lines such as the Rio Scandi versitip or the Gaelforce multi tip when fishing deeper/quicker as opposed to a skagit as the presentation is better unless using tungsten tips in Spring. That's when the skagit comes into its own. Dont use them often but a nice option to have all the same.
Cheers Diarmid.

Cheers, and with the multi tip systems do you still fit poly leaders? If so, I guess you have to match it to make sure it sinks faster than your tip 😅
 

lefthandup

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Skagit and presentation !!

The skagit only comes out when the river is high and fast ..... presentation doesn't matter a jot in these conditions, but I honestly find my presentation with a skagit fine.

If I really need presentation to catch a fish ...it will be with a single handed rod.
 

Tangled

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Cheers, and with the multi tip systems do you still fit poly leaders? If so, I guess you have to match it to make sure it sinks faster than your tip 😅

If you're a beginner or just an occasional salmon angler like me I suggest you look at the Airflo Rage Compact Kit. They call it a cross between an Sandi and a Skajit so you get the average and hopefully, best, of both. It comes with the running line and 3 polyleader tips so it covers pretty much everything you'll normally need to do. It was recommended by a guide and it's worked out well for me.

 

Rennie

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1stly apologies Tangled initially and then every one else for my rather curt and to the point replies to this thread so far to date- which I'll now try to rectify!. Sadly thats me been on nights last week, so what brain there is, is most certainly not functioning in a rational manner.Now I've slept as most humans do, I might make more sense.
As we all know, American's invented Spey Casting and know more about it than any other nation and individual put together on the planet.
Looking at the two pieces put forward by Tangled we need to recognise the 1st is put forward by a retail premise- in particular an employee, The second by Rio them selves who are the acknowledged masters of confusion and mis information ( in order to sell more of their products!).
Now I'd suggest in the best interests of objectivity, maybe we should have had a Scottish Ghillie type to give a run down on the pro's n con's of the conventional Spey lines- that would include DT and WF lines initially before moving through the various Belly lengths of Spey Profile lines including sinkers!, dunno maybe Scott Mackenzie, he's a nice geezer!.
Then for the Scandi influence- here I mean shooting heads, because thats what they are!-, some one like Jan Eric Granbo, you know the full SP, what can and can't be done etc etc., if he can't get a gurt big flee down in a raging Scandi torrent, then what chance have we got?
Then in the full spirit of unbiased- ness, some one like Ed Ward to give their 3d worth on the Skagit style of fishing.
Then I think objectivity might have had a fighting chance and each individual reader could absorb what they need to at their own pace, sift though and utilise what would suit them best to use in their own fishing.And as we see more and more of these days hybridise, bastardise (pardon my language, please) and generally swop n change to suit.
For long enough I fished n splashed about with up to 3" of copper tubes and 2" of tungsten off DT and Spey Profile lines, including sinkers, I've moved to a Shooting head approach almost full time now, I don't have any problems in getting down where I need to at all where and how I need to, never really have.
I have Skagit lines and tips, but of the "weapons" in my armoury they're the ones I find most limiting and of a more specific use.
Now, what does make the old blood boil is being told my "Scan dee" line is limited because it won't carry heavy tips, suppose that's limited in the same way as a floating "Ska jit" line is limited as it comes out of the box without a tip!.
Honestly, some of these folk are completely dateless and a waste of skin.Do they seriously expect to be able to utilise their "Scan dee" floating line to boss a big heavy tip and weighted flee in order to get down?, it's not made for that, use a sinking "Scan dee" line you moron!, or a multi tip head, or a full sinking head or a sinking Spey line or what ever.I wouldn't rock up to fish Dee in low summer water with a "Ska jit" line.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat and I'm a firm believer in the right kit for the right approach- I recognise that.However some of these folk will only tell 1/2 the right story, you get some of the facts, but not all of them.
Maybe if those two articles were penned with an objective bias and not a subjective one (which I take the view that they were) it'd be easier to understand for any one already confused by all this malarkey, because confusing it certainly is and articles like those two only lend to the depth and stickiness of that confusion.
In no way do I level criticism towards Tangled for his putting up of those articles- my rant is certainly not intended towards that at all, merely that both articles were penned with an American Skagit bias, as thats all many over there fish, its all they understand.I doubt I'm 100% right or accurate, but at least I'll stand my corner and try to pass on what I know to be right.
Any way, off for a Junior Aspirin now, wife's doing the washing so she'll need to borrow me Ska jit's again to get it all dry.
I'll be very honest, it'd be some work to sit down and pen an unbiased factual piece on the pro's n cons of all the lines and styles involved in Spey casting and Salmon fishing, need lots of big word's and more than the single crayon wot I have got.Still at least it's passed a bit of time untill I get fishing.
Tight lines all and (y) Tangled.
Pedro.
 
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lefthandup

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I have an old John Norris sink 2 shooting head.(it's red , someone may have one lying about) I don't put a tip on it and it almost acts like a Skagit....in fact here it is in action throwing a copper tube and catching a nice fish .
 

leave_u

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1stly apologies Tangled initially and then every one else for my rather curt and to the point replies to this thread so far to date- which I'll now try to rectify!. Sadly thats me been on nights last week, so what brain there is, is most certainly not functioning in a rational manner.Now I've slept as most humans do, I might make more sense.
As we all know, American's invented Spey Casting and know more about it than any other nation and individual put together on the planet.
Looking at the two pieces put forward by Tangled we need to recognise the 1st is put forward by a retail premise- in particular an employee, The second by Rio them selves who are the acknowledged masters of confusion and mis information ( in order to sell more of their products!).
Now I'd suggest in the best interests of objectivity, maybe we should have had a Scottish Ghillie type to give a run down on the pro's n con's of the conventional Spey lines- that would include DT and WF lines initially before moving through the various Belly lengths of Spey Profile lines including sinkers!, dunno maybe Scott Mackenzie, he's a nice geezer!.
Then for the Scandi influence- here I mean shooting heads, because thats what they are!-, some one like Jan Eric Granbo, you know the full SP, what can and can't be done etc etc., if he can't get a gurt big flee down in a raging Scandi torrent, then what chance have we got?
Then in the full spirit of unbiased- ness, some one like Ed Ward to give their 3d worth on the Skagit style of fishing.
Then I think objectivity might have had a fighting chance and each individual reader could absorb what they need to at their own pace, sift though and utilise what would suit them best to use in their own fishing.And as we see more and more of these days hybridise, bastardise (pardon my language, please) and generally swop n change to suit.
For long enough I fished n splashed about with up to 3" of copper tubes and 2" of tungsten off DT and Spey Profile lines, including sinkers, I've moved to a Shooting head approach almost full time now, I don't have any problems in getting down where I need to at all where and how I need to, never really have.
I have Skagit lines and tips, but of the "weapons" in my armoury they're the ones I find most limiting and of a more specific use.
Now, what does make the old blood boil is being told my "Scan dee" line is limited because it won't carry heavy tips, suppose that's limited in the same way as a floating "Ska jit" line is limited as it comes out of the box without a tip!.
Honestly, some of these folk are completely dateless and a waste of skin.Do they seriously expect to be able to utilise their "Scan dee" floating line to boss a big heavy tip and weighted flee in order to get down?, it's not made for that, use a sinking "Scan dee" line you moron!, or a multi tip head, or a full sinking head or a sinking Spey line or what ever.I wouldn't rock up to fish Dee in low summer water with a "Ska jit" line.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat and I'm a firm believer in the right kit for the right approach- I recognise that.However some of these folk will only tell 1/2 the right story, you get some of the facts, but not all of them.
Maybe if those two articles were penned with an objective bias and not a subjective one (which I take the view that they were) it'd be easier to understand for any one already confused by all this malarkey, because confusing it certainly is and articles like those two only lend to the depth and stickiness of that confusion.
In no way do I level criticism towards Tangled for his putting up of those articles- my rant is certainly not intended towards that at all, merely that both articles were penned with an American Skagit bias, as thats all many over there fish, its all they understand.I doubt I'm 100% right or accurate, but at least I'll stand my corner and try to pass on what I know to be right.
Any way, off for a Junior Aspirin now, wife's doing the washing so she'll need to borrow me Ska jit's again to get it all dry.
I'll be very honest, it'd be some work to sit down and pen an unbiased factual piece on the pro's n cons of all the lines and styles involved in Spey casting and Salmon fishing, need lots of big word's and more than the single crayon wot I have got.Still at least it's passed a bit of time untill I get fishing.
Tight lines all and (y) Tangled.
Pedro.
Omg, that was brilliant 🤣🤣🤣 i know some friends that coud use some "ska jit" T-shirts, u made my day😁 As for me, living the dram in skan-dee land😇
 

wormo

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I find that most Scandi lines will cast and turnover copper tubes up to 2 inch but any bigger or heavier and they start to struggle. I prefer multi tip lines such as the Rio Scandi versitip or the Gaelforce multi tip when fishing deeper/quicker as opposed to a skagit as the presentation is better unless using tungsten tips in Spring. That's when the skagit comes into its own. Dont use them often but a nice option to have all the same.
Cheers Diarmid.
anything bigger than a 2" copper tube you would be as well spinning !!!
 
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