A Few Fish From Today

Don CurlyHorny

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Didn't take long for you to break your (perceived) promise and step out of the mirk to cause more animosity did it?
As far as threatening forum behaviour goes, behave yourself and for once see yourself as others see you.
You are nothing but a stirrer, surrounded by your wee clique of followers who, B.T.W. don't appear to endorse the sh*t you have been posting recently.
Why don't you just leave other folk's posts alone and stick to the ones that suit your warped sense of humour PLEASE?
I’ll heed your advice, but I suggest you practice what you preach. By the way it’s a forum, for members to post and comment as they see fit, not for you to decide who reads and answers to your content. You and others give as good as you get, remember that.
Have a good day 👍

DCH
 

keirstream

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Apologies in advance for bringing this back on topic, but……

Do you think you are fishing any deeper as a result of the intermediate/ hover lines; or does the faster presentation mean that depth is effectively the same as a more ‘normal’ swing on the floating line?

I have always thought the general premise makes sense i.e. Faster, squarer, leaving no moment of decision. Leaving aside my ineptitude; I do think that it is significantly harder to deliver this presentation at longer range on larger rivers than it is at relatively close range on small spate streams - where we can usually deliver much more controlled presentation to fish at (usually) shallower depths.

Earlier this year I fished the Naver Association water and it was jumping with fish. The only fish that we saw caught was landed by a guy fishing essentially Stillwater lure tactics. Long square casts and a fart strip back. One of my very few fish that week came to a Sunray. As these incidents and (more convincingly) yours and others experience show, the faster, more aggressive approach clearly works. I just think it can be hard to achieve in all situations.

Anyways, well done & enjoy the rest of the season.
Thanks G.K. for bringing order back into chaos on this thread.(y)
If I am allowed to give you my own thoughts on the subject without being accused of blowing smoke up my a**e etc. then I will be delighted to do so.
In my opinion only, I consider that the sub surface line reduces surface disturbance and causes fish less distraction in that they are not seeing a wake cutting through the surface tension above but, critically, they do see the fly. Particularly so with a single hander in smaller rivers using the Airflo Glass series of Inty lines. A floating line is fine on a bigger river when you apply standard down and across swing tactics as generally the main line is well ahead of the fly so is not an issue. The difference being on spate rivers fast tactics present the main line directly in front of the fish's nose so you have to try somehow to mitigate that effect.
On larger rivers I have found that the fast, square tactics inevitably ends up with the fly downstream of you anyway due to the further distance travelled and being whipped round by the Beauly Belly effect so the main line remains further in front of the fish anyway so there is no concern to me about line colour, I use a standard hover in that situation. I started using that technique last season and ended with 48 salmon, around 30 on the hover and wee tube during late July, August and early September when others around me were struggling and my 1st opportunity to use those tactics on a bigger river this season was last Wednesday, with similar results.
Critically though, this season I changed my spate river tactics to those detailed above (after, I have to say, a week in June on the Borgie with Loxie, who absolutely tanned me whilst I stuck to standard tactics. I learned a big lesson from that experience) plus much more hitching and in a really difficult summer I have now reached 30 since end June.
I just feel I'm doing something much better and if that's "blowing smoke up my arse" then the people who think that, please ignore it.
However, for those willing to try, I genuinely wish you all the best and let me know how you do please?
 

Bigroger

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Steady on Rocky!!! Pure entertainment, this forum lark. Can I bring ma wee brother wae me, in case a get into difficulties? 😂😂😂
 

K MacC

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This years low water conditions have been trying to say the least. Like you I have been fishing squarer faster and trying to keep the line off the water as much as possible. The hitch has been an interesting experiment and produced a few fish but I have been using a slow sinker S2-3 mostly in smaller rivers. The low water has highlighted the splashy casters are not catching fish due to the disturbance caused. A stealthy overhead cast is far more productive and the use of small flies has been essential.
 

Rennie

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Think the best parts of this thread are really really interesting!, no one can ignore information from those who are catching the fish!. There's a large similarity in there between some of my methods and approach's, sadly the fish are missing.
However as stated By KMacC and endorsed by Kierstream " A stealthy overhead cast is far more productive and the use of small flies has been essential ",I see the line of thought and the practical applications clear enough there and really there's no arguing with them. However , I'm pretty well set on my ability certainly with my switch rods and 40+ approach to generate accurate noiseless stealthy presentations with a single or double spey. In fact there's a couple of my clubs members who have commented as such in that I generate just about a zero " footprint " on my way through a pool and short of actually seeing me, they never know I'm there.
Kierstream and Loxie, do you think an overhead cast is essential to your approach?, or would you consider a faultless Spey delivery just as effective?, I know myself the number of times I've delivered a small flee into shallow water to an area with fish, the number of times the " take" has been near as damn instantaneous!.
I hasten to add here, I'm looking for all the pieces to the puzzle, raising the barr of my own fishing and certainly not questioning the ability of others.
Cheers,Pedro.
 

keirstream

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Wherever I can now on smaller rivers I always use an overhead cast Pedro and I know Loxie is the same. When I need a "Spey" cast I use the Rio S. H. Spey line from the side rather than conventional. However if you can execute a faultless double Spey, then why not. No disturbance in my experience results in more takes. 👍
 

Grassy_Knollington

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Thanks G.K. for bringing order back into chaos on this thread.(y)
If I am allowed to give you my own thoughts on the subject without being accused of blowing smoke up my a**e etc. then I will be delighted to do so.
In my opinion only, I consider that the sub surface line reduces surface disturbance and causes fish less distraction in that they are not seeing a wake cutting through the surface tension above but, critically, they do see the fly. Particularly so with a single hander in smaller rivers using the Airflo Glass series of Inty lines. A floating line is fine on a bigger river when you apply standard down and across swing tactics as generally the main line is well ahead of the fly so is not an issue. The difference being on spate rivers fast tactics present the main line directly in front of the fish's nose so you have to try somehow to mitigate that effect.
On larger rivers I have found that the fast, square tactics inevitably ends up with the fly downstream of you anyway due to the further distance travelled and being whipped round by the Beauly Belly effect so the main line remains further in front of the fish anyway so there is no concern to me about line colour, I use a standard hover in that situation. I started using that technique last season and ended with 48 salmon, around 30 on the hover and wee tube during late July, August and early September when others around me were struggling and my 1st opportunity to use those tactics on a bigger river this season was last Wednesday, with similar results.
Critically though, this season I changed my spate river tactics to those detailed above (after, I have to say, a week in June on the Borgie with Loxie, who absolutely tanned me whilst I stuck to standard tactics. I learned a big lesson from that experience) plus much more hitching and in a really difficult summer I have now reached 30 since end June.
I just feel I'm doing something much better and if that's "blowing smoke up my arse" then the people who think that, please ignore it.
However, for those willing to try, I genuinely wish you all the best and let me know how you do please?

Cheers Kierstream, thanks for the info.

WRT Casting: I totally agree, when I fish a Spate river (Halladale, Blackwater), or in low water & short range on mid sized rivers, I rarely, if ever Spey cast. On the Halladale in particular, there are some places where a long Speycast with the right presentation is is possible, but not many. In the water conditions we usually encounter (i.e. sh^*+) it is unproductive in most places - especially where a 60-90 degree presentation is required.

Dropping the floating line is interesting, I’ll bet there is less shadow from the fast glass too - IMLE the fish can get more worried about a shadow than they do about the end of the line. I particularly like the Rage Hover 480g and fish that for a fair amount of the time on the Tyne.

For the last couple of years I’ve really tried to fight my instinct and swing the fly faster. Last year paid off for the Sea Trout, if not the Salmon. This year has just been dreadful conditions and while I’ve had more Salmon (4), it has probably not been the best time to assess the benefits of one approach over the other; although I have caught fish swinging faster than I would have done prior to last year.

Ultimately I catch so few Salmon in a year it can be hard to tell if it is the presentation that nailed the fish, or just being in the right place at the right time.

I shall persevere!

Ta

GK
 

Loxie

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Think the best parts of this thread are really really interesting!, no one can ignore information from those who are catching the fish!. There's a large similarity in there between some of my methods and approach's, sadly the fish are missing.
However as stated By KMacC and endorsed by Kierstream " A stealthy overhead cast is far more productive and the use of small flies has been essential ",I see the line of thought and the practical applications clear enough there and really there's no arguing with them. However , I'm pretty well set on my ability certainly with my switch rods and 40+ approach to generate accurate noiseless stealthy presentations with a single or double spey. In fact there's a couple of my clubs members who have commented as such in that I generate just about a zero " footprint " on my way through a pool and short of actually seeing me, they never know I'm there.
Kierstream and Loxie, do you think an overhead cast is essential to your approach?, or would you consider a faultless Spey delivery just as effective?, I know myself the number of times I've delivered a small flee into shallow water to an area with fish, the number of times the " take" has been near as damn instantaneous!.
I hasten to add here, I'm looking for all the pieces to the puzzle, raising the barr of my own fishing and certainly not questioning the ability of others.
Cheers,Pedro.
For me it's all about stealth so use whatever you like to achieve that. In the rivers I fish I would overhead where I can, roll cast where I can't and Spey where I have to. If I Spey I try and use the butt of a tapered leader to anchor and touch and go as far as possible. I also like to stay as far as possible from the river and that has obvious implications for Spey casting!
 

midgydug

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Getting a bit confused with theories.
Are you using Int lines with sunray and floater with hitch. ?
I'm not a fan of fishing sunray solely due to the effort, I have enough sore bits without adding anymore. But there is no doubt you guys have certainly proved its worth persevering.
I have caught fish in the past on a stripped Collie dog and the guys I have seen that were successful with sunray were always on alloy tubes, rarely plastic.
 

keirstream

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Getting a bit confused with theories.
Are you using Int lines with sunray and floater with hitch. ?
I'm not a fan of fishing sunray solely due to the effort, I have enough sore bits without adding anymore. But there is no doubt you guys have certainly proved its worth persevering.
I have caught fish in the past on a stripped Collie dog and the guys I have seen that were successful with sunray were always on alloy tubes, rarely plastic.
Using the method for hitching that I have been using on smaller rivers, the main line does not matter as all of it, including the leader, is clear of the water thus the term "high sticking". If I only have 1 rod assembled, then it is always the slow inty which allows me to switch quickly to a monkey or a wee tube. With a 2 rod set up, 1 is always a slow inty, the other has a 3 spool cassette with various sink rates including the Rio S.H. Spey line.
 

PerryPoker

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Well done on your fish but in my opinion, you should never give away your tried and tested secrets! I know it’s nothing new but now every man and their dug will be fishing slow sinking lines! The full floater will then rein supreme again when the fish have seen several hundred Snaeldas and nymphs passing their puss. ‘Mon the fish!
 
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