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  1. #1521
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    Jul 2012
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    Scotland
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    Quote Originally Posted by keirstream View Post
    Invermarnoch,
    whilst I totally agree with what you say (except for your admiration of "Safe Seat Dewar" who I worked with and watched his tail fly with the wind on a daily basis. "Father Of The Nation"?----my posterior.
    However, like you coming from a Labour background , albeit somewhat different circumstances and ideologies I would have thought, my biggest criticism of all the Unionist parties in this debate is that none of them have appeared to be taking it seriously , possibly until now.and even yet I'm still not sure.
    Cameron , Clegg, Milliband et al decide to lecture us from London instead of coming up into Scotland to tell us personally how much they want us to remain united. To me this policy has been a huge own goal to the aspirations of the No campaigners and a huge unexpected boost to the Yes camp which could have been avoided easily.

    FREEDOM----what does it really mean to the punter in the street???
    An interesting view of the phsycology involved in all the rhetoric can be found in this short story.

    The 'VOTE' has nothing to do with what anyone thinks other than the people elegiable to vote. Other's are entitled to their opinion however should not be drawn into the debate (as they have their own agenda) and the SNP should not respond/react to Londons interferience.

    To date I was undecided however with the recent reteric coming from London it's making me sway more and more toward to YES vote.
    Last edited by kenny007; 14-02-2014 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #1522
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,733

    Default Great analogy

    Great quote this morning on the news " salmond is like a dog chasing a cat. When he has caught it he doesn't know what to do with it" . Sums it up very nicely I think, if he gains his wish of a yes vote he'll **** himself as he will have to do something with what he wished for....

  3. #1523

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny007 View Post
    The 'VOTE' has nothing to do with what anyone thinks other than the people elegiable to vote. Other's are entitled to their opinion however should not be drawn into the debate (as they have their own agenda) and the SNP should not respond/react to Londons interferience.

    To date I was undecided however with the recent reteric coming from London it's making me sway more and more toward to YES vote.
    Take your point Kenny, but it does affect others - i.e. everyone else in the UK. I think this was Osbourne's point yesterday, if you want to go then fine but this is the position of the UK government if you leave, and these are the facts as to what would actually happen. Maybe it wasn't what some Scots wanted to hear and maybe it was delivered in a way that felt threatening but at least Scotland now knows what would happen with a Yes vote. "No currency union, you're on your own." Frank but fair IMHO...

  4. #1524
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Scotland West.
    Posts
    574

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    Yes might not mean Yes: 'smooth' iScotland talks still needed, says Coalition source | Herald Scotland

    Typical of the arrogance of Westminster to the people of Scotland. We won't respect the vote if you don't vote the way we want. Aye right we'll see about that. The YES vote is the only one. How many own goals can these clowns score?!?

  5. #1525
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Dunbartonshire
    Posts
    3,080

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassy_Knollington View Post
    If this a currency union was so clearly a good idea for 'rUK' then why on earth would the3 parties have decided to oppose it? In the spectrum of **** ideas this is one of the worst. This currency union appears to have been proposed without full awareness of the implications and no guarantee of long term commitment on one side. On the other (rUK) side currency union is something that nobody has asked for and which carries obligations they have so far fought hard to resist.
    Grassy, you are obviously a well read and intelligent man, so, it really surprises me that you came out with a statement like this that has allowed you to be naive because the wagging watch suits your argument.

    The truth is that currency unions work all over the world. If you have read the full transcript of Carney's speech you can clearly see that he does not say it is a bad idea, simply that it carries risk, but, so does staying in the union with the rising debt.

    The reason that the other three parties are saying a currency union would not be appropriate is becasue, right now, it is the only thing they have to discredit the argument for independence. They are not banging on about the EU anymore are they? That may raise it's head again once all the bluff and bluster over the currency dies down.

    You will notice that what they started with was a clear statement that Scotland could not go it alone because it was too heavily sibsidised. This argument has been shot down.

    They then started to say that we could not go it alone because we could not defend ourselves. That argument was shot down.

    What we had then was a whole pointless furore over entry into the EU, while Westminster cannot make their mind up if they want the UK to be part of it. This is so convoluted and mixed up that it has been temporarily sidelined.

    Now, we have the great currency debate which has culminated in the rUK saying that Scotland cannot use the pound as it's currency. In other words, we do not have an political, fiscal or dipplomatic argument against Independence any longer, so we will now start the threats of standing in the way of Scotland's progress. It has always been the way, but we live in a smaller world now and this does not look good for the UK on the international stage.
    "... the grand excuse for loitering in peaceful places."


  6. #1527
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    East Dunbartonshire
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    3,080

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    Invermarnoch,

    I don't doubt that the independence issue is a huge financial risk, but is it not one worth taking when the figures appear to stack up in our favour. We are still paying our share of a UK debt that Scotland would not be saddled with as an independent nation.

    To turn things on their head, we are always being told that we are not big enough and that we gain some security from being in the UK. However, teh UK are continuing on a path of rising debt. Remember that it is estimated that over 90% of our wealth only exists in computer databases, we lost the gold backed banking system in 1914.

    As this debt rises, we will be accountable to pay for more and more of our share of it, and yet we still see huge infractructure projects like HS2, and Crossrail going ahead in London, which we are paying our share of. We are all being made to feel the pinch of serious austerity cuts while London continues to develop on our taxes, and our debt.

    As an independent nation, there would have been no need for Scotland to get into debt, and, going forward, we can realise this situation again. Why should we be made to pay more for debt to develop England, when we could manage our own budget and country better.

    In my view the risk and any reality of financial pain would be short lived and worth the long term goal of a more prosperous and fairer nation.

    As a life long Labour supporter, why would you prefer to tie yourself to an increasingly centralised, autocratic and right wing Government?
    "... the grand excuse for loitering in peaceful places."

  7. #1528
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Dunbartonshire
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    3,080

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradan_eire_alba View Post
    Yes might not mean Yes: 'smooth' iScotland talks still needed, says Coalition source | Herald Scotland

    Typical of the arrogance of Westminster to the people of Scotland. We won't respect the vote if you don't vote the way we want. Aye right we'll see about that. The YES vote is the only one. How many own goals can these clowns score?!?
    There was a sniff that this would be coming on social media sites yesterday. So, who was calling Wee Eck a dictator then?
    "... the grand excuse for loitering in peaceful places."

  8. #1529

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    I see it differently Fruin (as you might expect). Rather than the Yes argument of "when we leave then we will have a discussion with Westminster about the currency" it was the facts about what would actually happen in that scenario. In other words how the discussion would go. From what the 3 parties have said there would be no discussion, the position of all three parties is, you cannot keep the pound if you leave, tough luck.

    Rather than wild speculation as to what the UK government would do (i.e. Salmond's view), it is the UK government telling Scotland (and the UK) what would actually happen. I think all Scots should be happy to have that clarified and if they still think independence is justified then good luck to them.

    For what it's worth, I am neutral in this argument. If Scotland leave I wish them well, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the rest of the UK.
    Last edited by T7; 14-02-2014 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #1530
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Marshfield Nr Bath
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    3,504

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    Paul you have a nice way with words and I thought Marshfield was only linked to one Poet, Dylan Thomas who stayed in the Maltings in 1940.
    David,

    How on earth did you know that?

    Come on spill the beans

    Actually I think the Maltings is up for sale on the High Street at 1.2m at the moment! Old Dylan would have chuckled at the price of houses here now....another sign of mad times!

    Paul

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