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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    Default How green is green?

    Had a beer with a couple ex work colleagues last night, both now retired. Havent worked together for 6 or 7 years but meet up every 2 to 3 months to chew the fat and put the world to rights.

    Being older and wiser than me ( well definitely the older bit) there is often some good debate.

    One us a real petrol head. Currently running a porsche, an aston and an XFR (nothing he drives has economy in the forefront of decissions - he's had e-types, Ferraris and other porsches as well).
    So, conversation got round to electric cars. Very interesting debate, so been doing a bit of reading today.

    The summary is that the whole life carbon emissions for an electric car (production of batteries, electricity generation - not all of it is renewable - and decommision) is higher than for a petrol or diesel car. Add to that the ecological damage of mining the materials or the damage to the sea bed from stripping deposits and electric cars appear far more damaging to the planet than those run on fossil fuels.

    Interesting.
    I think I've got this work life balance thingy right.

    That is to say I spend more time in work thinking about fishing than I spend fishing and thinking about work!

  2. #2

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    Electric cars are good for those who like to feel better about themselves, the techs not really there yet in terms of miles per charge and the cost outweighs the benefit in my opinion.
    Hybrids seem the sensible compramise but you are still paying a premium to save a bit on fuel costs.


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  3. #3

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    Norway has the highest number of EVs per head of population in the world. But they hedge their bets because almost all of them still have their trusty Volvos for winter driving and longer journeys. Not convinced.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Yorkshire (were there a god it'd be god's own country) & Afrique
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    Default

    Shhh...

    Besides there being nowhere near enough supplies of Cu, Co, Ni, Li for 100% ER fleets in even the UK without making the resource price shoot up and become prohibitive.

    (going electric is a typical bourgouis developed world consumerist nonsense, exporting the pollution to countries least equipped to monitor, evaluate and remediate it!) Show the workings for life of unit total (unexpurgated and subsidised) emissions for a power windmill...

    Green, MRIA.



    .
    Last edited by seeking; 24-12-2019 at 12:12 PM. Reason: One Cu should have been a Co
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wee-Eck View Post
    Norway has the highest number of EVs per head of population in the world. But they hedge their bets because almost all of them still have their trusty Volvos for winter driving and longer journeys. Not convinced.
    Yea, the batteries dont like really cold weather so range will be reduced. Never driven one in the snow but i would expect the instant high torque from the motors to be an issue too.

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Aberdeen
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    Default

    My thoughts entirely on the EV thing. One of my mates is very keen on them, despite being a died in the wool petrol head.

    I saw a picture the other week of a charging station being run.....by a diesel genny

    As Seeking says, it appeals to the type of driver who thinks they are doing something, without actually thinking!

    My mate recently test drove a MG EV. The build quality was dismal. He sent me a pic of underneath where it was clear some of the subframe had been hacked away to fit some of the leccy stuff....it was rough as a badgers...and they hadn't even re done the underseal. The quoted range figures were miles off too.
    Last edited by westie4566; 20-12-2019 at 08:34 PM.
    ..........so many flies, so little time!

  7. #7

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    I think the main selling point of the electric car is that you can tell everyone that you meet that you own an electric car.

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    HUDDERSFIELD
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    2,024

    Default

    What about Hydrogen cars, or methane powered cars. Are they Greta Thunberg friendly ?
    What about a solar powered car for summer and a wind powered one for winter. ( powered by Brussels sprouts . Oh no that's methane isn't it .
    I will no doubt be buying another diesel next, just to annoy the tree hugging Gretas of this world.
    I have done my carbon friendly bit by not having kids so feel like I have earned my gas guzzling, high emissions vehicle !

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Cheshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrrr View Post
    I think the main selling point of the electric car is that you can tell everyone that you meet that you own an electric car.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    Too many of these goody goody holier than thou brigade dont look at the bigger picture. All they look at is the headline that makes things justify their argument. The fact it does more harm than good is immaterial.

    The other interesting debate is global warming. Read another interesting paper on thermal capacity and the temperature difference between air and water to raise the teperature by one degree. We'd be cooked long before it happened. Sea temperature rises and ice cap melting is more likely to result from the sun shining on those surfaces than the rise in air temperature.
    The analogy was in trying to heat your bath water by putting electric heaters in your bathroom.
    Again, very interesting reading.
    No doubt something is happening, but big assumptions are being made as to the cause.
    I think I've got this work life balance thingy right.

    That is to say I spend more time in work thinking about fishing than I spend fishing and thinking about work!

  10. #10

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    when technology arrives that gives EV,s a realistic range (4/500 miles) coupled with built in wind turbine type recharging capability, I don,t mean huge great props, but small enclosed turbo type generators, then they might get a decent uptake, but with only a few offering 200 mile + range, and that can get hammered by anything unusual, ie. high temperatures (air con on), freezing cold( heaters, demisters etc), couple that with an all too common nasty, gridlocked motorway, at night, then you can see your journey getting interrupted by a recharging stop, always assuming, you can find one, that isn,t already in use, or out of order!!!! Not at all convinced.
    peter

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