Thanks Thanks:  6
Likes Likes:  129
Page 6 of 15 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 149
  1. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    I don't believe that anybody who fundamentally believes in the worth of his course of action (as he did) cannot make a conscious decision that what he is doing is wrong and cannot stop himself doing it but someone else (in his opinion) can. That is why the proposition is untrue. It is not the same as drug addiction in this regard for a number of separate reasons, not least of which is the matter of the gravity for 3rd parties.
    It doesnít matter whether you believe it. There are instances of people voluntarily going through deradicalisation and coming out the other side as gold dust for those working with young Muslims and seeking an authentic community voice to counter any hate speech they are exposed to.

    He wrote a letter. Itís all over the internet. We canít judge his intentions. Did he really believe he needed deeper bible instruction? No idea. But it was a missed opportunity to find out. Prison should wherever possible rehabilitate. We didnít even try.

    If we are going to be world police, we need to be better at dealing with the consequences
    Last edited by Safranfoer; 02-12-2019 at 12:58 PM.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    3,824

    Default

    Probably best to stop bombing little brown people in the name of liberal democracy, short term lock the known threats up and get more beat coppers on the streets and in communities. When I saw the first bombs on Baghdad 2003 I knew this was the start of what's come after, stupid politicians who think they can blow people to bits without backlash.

  3. #53

    Default

    bc3ed47f-412b-424c-b1ca-300410581254-jpeg
    Remember Thomas Muir of Huntershill

  4. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ibm59 View Post
    bc3ed47f-412b-424c-b1ca-300410581254-jpeg
    Yes that is probably true but it is a two way street and the knifing and bombing of innocent men women and children in this country also makes us and our children hate them and what they stand for.
    If they dont like us or our way of living why do so many of them want to come here? Is this a form of the Christian crusades in reverse.
    Would i like to go and live in Saudi ? no because i dont like their way of living or their rules,so i will stay in my own country and have a pint when ever i like.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Lothian
    Posts
    4,312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Safranfoer View Post
    It doesnít matter whether you believe it. There are instances of people voluntarily going through deradicalisation and coming out the other side as gold dust for those working with young Muslims and seeking an authentic community voice to counter any hate speech they are exposed to.

    He wrote a letter. Itís all over the internet. We canít judge his intentions. Did he really believe he needed deeper bible instruction? No idea. But it was a missed opportunity to find out. Prison should wherever possible rehabilitate. We didnít even try.

    If we are going to be world police, we need to be better at dealing with the consequences
    Do you seriously not see the difference between careful intelligent patient de-radicalisation and a glib left wing media remark which fails at the first application of logic? I don't think you should be mixing that up with global policeman stuff.

    Your claim was that his request for a course of deradicalisation was ignored thus causing the crime. That claim relies on a denial of logic and an acceptance of an absence of personal responsibility to excuse his actions. Believe what and who you wish but it's not for me that one.
    Last edited by ozzyian; 02-12-2019 at 04:20 PM.
    Avast ye scurvey dogs

  6. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by longchuck View Post
    this just goes to show the result of our governments immigration laws,namby pamby and take immigrants by the hand,im in no way saying all immigrants are bad for the country but tougher screening and laws for migrants is a must,any causing bother of any kind get them deported back to country of origin straight away
    You probably know by now that this individual as many others involved in terrorist attacks in the past decade, was born and bread on UK shores. Having in mind hundreds more that turned radical overnight and headed to Syria as soon as so called caliphate was erected, I wonder how long it is going to be before other countries introduce some serious measures on vetting all UK passport holders.

  7. #57

    Default

    Can somebody put this thread out of itís misery?

  8. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SOS View Post
    Yes that is probably true but it is a two way street and the knifing and bombing of innocent men women and children in this country also makes us and our children hate them and what they stand for.
    If they dont like us or our way of living why do so many of them want to come here? Is this a form of the Christian crusades in reverse.
    Would i like to go and live in Saudi ? no because i dont like their way of living or their rules,so i will stay in my own country and have a pint when ever i like.
    Chicken , or the egg ?
    Remember Thomas Muir of Huntershill

  9. #59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    Do you seriously not see the difference between careful intelligent patient de-radicalisation and a glib left wing media remark which fails at the first application of logic? I don't think you should be mixing that up with global policeman stuff.

    Your claim was that his request for a course of deradicalisation was ignored thus causing the crime. That claim relies on a denial of logic and an acceptance of an absence of personal responsibility to excuse his actions. Believe what and who you wish but it's not for me that one.
    Why do you assume that I think deradicalisation is easy? Like a speed awareness course...? Point is, he asked for help for whatever reason and it wasnít given. If someone had paid any attention to him when he was in prison, theyíd have had the opportunity to either realise heís aping remorse or had the chance to genuinely change his ideology, over the course of a couple of years.

    If you canít see that the system is failing the public here, itís you with the problem and failure to apply logic, not me. Whether he was imprisoned for 8 years or 16, the idea that no one at all actually spoke to the guy at length and assessed either his level of risk or potential for rehabilitation seems ridiculous. Iím not going to let you patronise me here. We donít let paedophiles and murderers out without assessment, and that assessment is usually based on remorse, whether they are believed to be rehabilitated and the level of threat they present.

    And itís entirely linked to world policing since we invented reasons to bomb Iraq and that directly led to groups like Al Qaeda becoming more influential. Are you implying that the sharp rise in terrorism since then is my leftie lens and he was on that bridge with a knife because heís a common or garden psychopath?

    He was there because we bombed Iraq, he became radicalised as a result and no one assessed him properly in prison. Not because of anything labour did in 2008 or the tories did in 2012. That was my original point. That the politicians are sniping over the wrong things.
    Last edited by Safranfoer; 02-12-2019 at 08:04 PM.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Lothian
    Posts
    4,312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Safranfoer View Post
    Why do you assume that I think deradicalisation is easy? Like a speed awareness course...? Point is, he asked for help for whatever reason and it wasnít given. If someone had paid any attention to him when he was in prison, theyíd have had the opportunity to either realise heís aping remorse or had the chance to genuinely change his ideology, over the course of a couple of years.

    If you canít see that the system is failing the public here, itís you with the problem and failure to apply logic, not me. Whether he was imprisoned for 8 years or 16, the idea that no one at all actually spoke to the guy and assessed either his level of risk or potential for rehabilitation seems ridiculous. Iím not going to let you patronise me here. We donít let paedophiles and murderers out without assessment, and that assessment is usually based on remorse, whether they are believed to be rehabilitated and the level of threat they present.

    And itís entirely linked to world policing since we invented reasons to bomb Iraq and that directly led to groups like Al Qaeda becoming more influential. Are you implying that the sharp rise in terrorism since then is my leftie lens and he was on that bridge with a knife because heís a common or garden psychopath?

    He was there because we bombed Iraq, he became radicalised as a result and no one assessed him in prison. Not because of anything labour did in 2008 or the tories did in 2012. That was my original point. That the politicians are sniping over the wrong things.
    If that's what you think, well ok, good for you. I expect however that over the next few weeks we will discover exactly how the system failed, I personally think it will be more complicated and require more consideration than 'he asked to be deradicalised and no one listened' which is essentially the crux of that little nugget you picked up and reproduced here.
    Avast ye scurvey dogs

Page 6 of 15 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •