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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safranfoer View Post
    The point was that he was never brought before a parole board. There was no one for him to deceive in that regard. He was automatically released on license without any scrutiny. Thatís what labour and tories are tit for tatting over. Whose tinkering led to this? Labour made it possible for such things to happen - but also had an alternative mechanism in place to avoid it for serious crimes, which wasnít used in this case by the Tories.



    Had he been given the help heíd asked for by someone trained on deradicalisation, a professional assessment could have been made regarding his threat to society.
    Read post 89 and you will see that he managed to con his way through all the help and get on a trip to London to carry out what was his purpose all along.

    Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by bassfly View Post
    Read post 89 and you will see that he managed to con his way through all the help and get on a trip to London to carry out what was his purpose all along.

    Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk
    The help he was given was cursory and thereís no evidence at all that it works. There are huge question marks over the governmentís d&d programme when it comes to efficacy, but they persist with it. I donít say this because we failed him. Iím saying it because the system fails all of us when it treats reprogramming jihadists like a night class in watercolours.

    Yes, he conned his way into a trip to London. Because he was a jihadist and we knew he was a jihadist and we didnít do enough to either help him change his ideology or keep him locked up out of harmís way. We released him, put him on a cursory course and told him he couldnít go to see his family. Worst of all worlds for him. No state support, no family support (moderate Muslims, apparently). What on earth did we expect would happen?

    But he asked for serious help. And that would have either revealed him to be an arch manipulator or helped him.

    We reap what we have sown with people like him. They are the product of our interventionist foreign policy. And we might be happy to deal with that. Losing a few citizens to gain control of a few oil lines. Collateral damage. But I suspect most ordinary folk donít see it like that. Iíd rather we took our role and responsibility seriously and cleaned up after ourselves.

  3. #93
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    Now your arguing for the sake of arguing. Under the tariff imposed there was no scrutiny as such as to whether he was reformed or not. Providing he had been a good boy in clink he was up for automatic release under licence. PERIOD

    Thankfully given a Tory return we shall see more punitive tariffs imposed and I for one wouldn't mind the American way for these people ie. locked up for life similarly to that other hateful person the Hooked Cleric.

    As an addendum to the above: Had he proved that he had been a good boy in clink and had the authorities kept him beyond the 8 year period then you would have had his "civil liberties" lawyers over it like a rash and the bleeding heart liberals would be holding midnight vigils outside the gates.
    Last edited by tenet; 03-12-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #94

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    Very sad to hear about more murder on our streets- a 12 year old boy killed in Essex

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by tenet View Post
    Now your arguing for the sake of arguing. Under the tariff imposed there was no scrutiny as such as to whether he was reformed or not. Providing he had been a good boy in clink he was up for automatic release under licence. PERIOD

    Thankfully given a Tory return we shall see more punitive tariffs imposed and I for one wouldn't mind the American way for these people ie. locked up for life similarly to that other hateful person the Hooked Cleric.

    As an addendum to the above: Had he proved that he had been a good boy in clink and had the authorities kept him beyond the 8 year period then you would have had his "civil liberties" lawyers over it like a rash and the bleeding heart liberals would be holding midnight vigils outside the gates.
    Thats the main sticking point, how do you prove of someone is still radicalised or not ? Maybe an ipp style sentence is the answer where you need to prove beyond doubt that you are no longer a danger then be on a life license with the possibility of recall if under any suspicion.

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    Last edited by Rrrr; 03-12-2019 at 11:02 AM.

  6. #96

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    de radicalisation = Lethol enjection 💉
    Last edited by Lamson v10; 03-12-2019 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rrrr View Post
    Thats the main sticking point, how do you prove of someone is still radicalised or not ? Maybe an ipp style sentence is the answer where you need to prove beyond doubt that you are no longer a danger then be on a life license with the possibility of recall if under any suspicion.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    I was reading about deradicalisation yesterday. It seems like it's like alcoholism - something you have to work at all your life. Much emphasis on directing energy into fruitful activity - joining groups that support other interests, like basketball or whatever. Keeping your mind busy and having a 'sponsor' who can sensecheck any awful thoughts you are having.

    Tenet you are (wilfully?) missing my point. Which is the only point I've been trying to make for a good 700 posts now. The KEY OPPORTUNITY to prevent what happened, was when he asked for help. For whatever reason. Because yes, otherwise, under the tariff imposed he slipped right through without touching the sides. Without any scrutiny as to whether he was reformed or not. Providing he had been a good boy in clink he was up for automatic review. PERIOD.

    You are exactly right.

    But if someone had RESPONDED TO HIS REQUEST FOR HELP he would have RECEIVED FOCUSED EXPERT SCRUTINY and eitherBEEN REFORMED OR REVEALED AS A DANGEROUS CHARLATAN & LOCKED UP FOR LIFE.

    Excuse the emphasis for now I am getting quite cross. The key point for intervention was missed - the rest is an automated process delivered by an underfunded system. But he asked for help more than once. Many opportunities for FOCUSED EXPERT SCRUTINY missed. It's like a paedophile in prison repeatedly saying, but I'm having thoughts about children that I know are wrong, can you help me? and being let out. A murderer admitting he still dreams of slitting people's throats and being let out. A mugger confessing that he'll probably go out and steal more old lady's pensions being let out.

    I just wanted to make two points. Boris Johnson won't make us safe by locking terrorists up for longer - we need to tackle the root cause of terrorism, cos they'll just keep springing up like weeds otherwise - and regardless of the tariff he was on, a KEY POINT FOR INTERVENTION AND A HUGE RED FLAG THAT THIS DUDE WAS STRUGGLING WITH HIS JIHADI THOUGHTS WAS MISSED.

    And you guys have spent 700 posts trying to make out I'm some sort of bleeding heart liberal.

  8. #98
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    Or maybe he CONNED EVERYBODY in order to get out early. Logic says if he told the authorities he still had Jihadi thoughts then he would ,perhaps, still be banged up.
    Apparently his lawyer thought he was de radicalized.

    London Bridge attacker Usman Khan's lawyer thought his convicted terrorist client would not offend again - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    PS- just learnt that part of his licence required being part of a Home Office de- radicalisation programme for which he was part of during his year of release.
    Last edited by tenet; 03-12-2019 at 11:47 AM.

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by tenet View Post
    Or maybe he CONNED EVERYBODY in order to get out early. Logic says if he told the authorities he still had Jihadi thoughts then he would ,perhaps, still be banged up.
    Apparently his lawyer thought he was de radicalized.

    London Bridge attacker Usman Khan's lawyer thought his convicted terrorist client would not offend again - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
    Apparently everyone thought he was deradicalised. And it's possible that, outside the sphere of influence of the ISIS propaganda regime, he felt like he had clarity. Until they released him back into the community where he was exposed to it again. His letter didn't explicitly say he was having jihaid thoughts, but it acknowledged that he needed help interpreting the Koran. And he asked for support over and over again. It should have been given, if we are serious about tackling terrorism. We should be investing time and money in understanding what is going on inside their heads, else we will forever and a day just be burying innocent people and locking jihadists up.

    My cousin was in prison for a long time when he was younger. NO ONE IN THE FAMILY KNOWS WHY. I mean, my aunt and uncle obviously do. But because he was convicted as a minor, the details weren't released. We were told it was because he'd spat on a girl in the Co-op, but this clearly isn't the case. It must have been bad, because he was inside for years, and when he was released on license in his mid-twenties following a parole hearing, he was forbidden from going anywhere near his hometown. Scene of the crime, and home to his parents.

    As a teenager, he was a heavy drug user. In prison, he exercised every day, read a load of books and did courses, kept his head down, kept clean, did well. I saw him at an out of town family funeral shortly after his first release and he was a different person to the angry/scary teenager that went in. Calmer, more balanced. Nice. He was never nice when we were growing up - he was petrifying.

    But living in a hostel on his own miles away from any support saw him back to drugs and back in prison. He was released again and my aunt and uncle separated, so my uncle could go and live with him and try and keep him straight. They have repeatedly asked for help with his addictions and his mental health problems but there is nothing out there. He'll only get any help if he commits another crime or breaks the movement terms of his parole.

    The system is set up to fail people leaving prison. And when they are dangerous or troubled people, dangerous and troubling things happen.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamson v10 View Post
    de radicalisation = Lethol enjection 💉
    This thread needs a lethal injection.

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