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  1. #1181
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Isle of Lewis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perrypokemon View Post
    From an Englishman living in England's point of view I think you are extremely lucky. We are saddled with the lying, cheating, stealing complete waste of a blue rosette that is Bozo and his suicidal Brexit tendencies (until he changes his mind of course) When Scotland becomes independent and it seems to be more of a case of when rather than if. You may end up back in the Eurooean Union. You must of course be prepared for a large convoy of disaffected English coming up the M6 at you waving blue passports and begging to be allowed to settle. I don't know hey!!!!!! Bl00dy foreigners
    Boris is my Prime Minister too. And Scotland will be part of the Union for the foreseeable. The separatists are loud, but are a minority.

  2. #1182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roag Fisher View Post
    Boris is my Prime Minister too. And Scotland will be part of the Union for the foreseeable. The separatists are loud, but are a minority.
    Have you also said hat if Scotland gets independence, the Islanders will want to remain part of the UK!

  3. #1183

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    What a lot of loud Scots conveniently forget is that Scotalnd asked top join in a union with England and needed England to pay off their massive debt which came about becasue of mismanaged governement, overspending and investment in vanity projects.

    Ask them to pay back the estimated £500m (equivalent) plus their proportion of the national debt and they will be bankrupt again.

  4. #1184
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    East Lothian
    Posts
    4,343

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pollowick View Post
    What a lot of loud Scots conveniently forget is that Scotalnd asked top join in a union with England and needed England to pay off their massive debt which came about becasue of mismanaged governement, overspending and investment in vanity projects.

    Ask them to pay back the estimated £500m (equivalent) plus their proportion of the national debt and they will be bankrupt again.
    That's not a particularly helpful argument imo. If you are selectively picking periods in history and basing the economic argument on revenue by region the nationalists will point you towards NS oil. Picking arguments to determine the future based on historical grievance is lowest common denominator stuff and best left to others. Ultimately you have to have faith in the real lifel debating points - which I think most Scots do.
    Avast ye scurvey dogs

  5. #1185

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    Ultimately you have to have faith in the real lifel debating points - which I think most Scots do.
    That’s why this whole thing is such a colossal waste of time. If Scotland had support for independence from across the left / right political spectrum and a more intelligent, less direct approach to Independence it might actually succeed and be a good think for Scotland as well as the rest of the UK. Even though I personally wouldn’t want to see it happen.

    Instead we have a single-minded vision of high spending, socialist Scotland, largely defined by how different it will be from nasty living within their means England. The vision continues to be propagated by a party who wouldn’t grasp the indirect approach if it indirectly but them on the ****. They continue to batter up against reality while letting opportunities slip through their grasp because they are blinded by a single ideology.

    This shouldn’t be about economics, but with the SNP continuing to preach their single high spending vision of independence and crow about ‘austerity’, it will boil down to that subject for many people. They won’t get a poll before the UK leaves the EU and from outside it is almost inconceivable that the SNPs vision can ever be delivered.

    When you run a deficit including oil and including Barnett of 7.9%, at the height of the economic cycle, with nearly record employment then it should be clear to everyone that the model is unsustainable. It beggars belief that it will be possible to both increase spending on Independence and reduce that deficit to meet Eurozone requirements of 3%. Then we have the ‘hard border’, the currency and all the other tedious practicalities of the situation.

    While the situation and desire to leave the UK is in some ways similar to Brexit, there are some critical differences which leave Scotland in a significantly tougher position than the admittedly risk presented by Brexit.

    If the SNP has any sense, they and Labour should have voted for May’s deal and used the power of Parliament to keep us in the customs union indefinitely. That would never happen because they can’t see the wood for the trees, or bite their fingers when they have a chance to grandstand.

    So instead we have the supposed first minister of Scotland apparently working full time on party political objectives, stirring up resentment with next to zero chance of success, while Scotland falls behind the rest of the UK.

    Politicians, who’d have em? Not SDWMP for sure.

  6. #1186

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    The problem the prime minister Boris faces is if he gives more funds to Scotland the snp will claim it was their good house keeping is where the money has come from,if he does not give Scotland more money then they will blame tory austerity for their own failings.
    One thing Nicola and her gang are good at is manipulating situations to suit their own agenda,taking credit when it is not due and blaming westminster for everything else.
    When storm Frank flooded parts of Aberdeenshire Sturgeon pitched up in Inverurie claiming she would give all the flood victims £1000 to help them through until the insurance kicked in ,what she forgot to mention was that the money came from a fund from the U.K. government.

  7. #1187

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    That's not a particularly helpful argument imo. If you are selectively picking periods in history and basing the economic argument on revenue by region the nationalists will point you towards NS oil. Picking arguments to determine the future based on historical grievance is lowest common denominator stuff and best left to others. Ultimately you have to have faith in the real lifel debating points - which I think most Scots do.


    Who does NS oil belong to? The UNITED KINGDOM and even if you draw an England/Scotland border out into the NSea a large amount would be within "English" waters.

    I actually chose a point where Scotland was separate and NOTHING to do with the current situation where the highs and lows of each country are accepted by the others.

    And - I happen to be of Scottish descent.
    Last edited by Pollowick; 19-12-2019 at 12:39 PM.

  8. #1188
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Stirling
    Posts
    6,489

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassy_Knollington View Post

    When you run a deficit including oil and including Barnett of 7.9%, at the height of the economic cycle, with nearly record employment then it should be clear to everyone that the model is unsustainable. It beggars belief that it will be possible to both increase spending on Independence and reduce that deficit to meet Eurozone requirements of 3%. Then we have the ‘hard border’, the currency and all the other tedious practicalities of the situation.
    Indeed, but have you factored in the possibility of quantative easing of our new currency the groat which would overcome all of these problems but would leave us with the inflation rate akin to Mugabe's Zimbabwe? We all know what happened there. Hope my pension is safely ringfenced in Sterling currency down sarf.
    https://gfycat.com/politicalsamekood...reality-dreams
    Respect My Authorita!!

  9. #1189

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    Quote Originally Posted by keirstream View Post
    Indeed, but have you factored in the possibility of quantative easing of our new currency the groat which would overcome all of these problems but would leave us with the inflation rate akin to Mugabe's Zimbabwe? We all know what happened there. Hope my pension is safely ringfenced in Sterling currency down sarf.
    https://gfycat.com/politicalsamekood...reality-dreams
    I have a friend who runs a "wealth management" company and is based in the Highlands. Before the last independence vote, many of the clients asked about security of their investments and wanted it "moved south just in case" including some who may have wanted independence. An alternate company was set up and funds moved across and they two cpompanies still exist side by side.

  10. #1190
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Belfast/Derry
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    7,944

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    Quote Originally Posted by ibm59 View Post
    Storm or not , England cares not one jot for the island of Ireland.
    All the rhetoric in the governmental thesaurus cannot hide that simple fact.

    Unfortunately, that dismissal is also quite apparent on this little forum of ours.
    That’s very apparent and maybe it has something to do with the drop in interaction from Irish members here the last few years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaneybs View Post
    The May backstop only kicked in if there was no compatible long term trade agreement but the Boris Withdrawal Agreement provides for different rules for NI from day1 after the end of the transition period - 1 January 2021 under Boris's proposed legislation.
    These new rules , a so called border down the Irish sea, will come in regardless of what "great trade deal" is agreed unless it is so good as to remove the need for a border between the EU and UK ie no tariffs, no quotas, permanently harmonised standards and no danger of the UK re exporting the proceeds of its even "greater deal with Donald Trump" (the famous clorinated chicken for example). No chance of that kind of deal from the UK government so the New NI arrangements will kick in on 1 Jan 2021.
    While anything is better than a hard border on the Island of Ireland I can understand why this agreement is so unattractive to the Unionists, I would not be happy if all trade between say Kerry and the rest of Ireland required even minimal paper work and checks.

    So, there will be border. Most likely economic and in the Sea. That wont be irrelevant. Far from it.
    Ye Cannae help bein' a wee bit grumpy, No if ye was jist born crabbit

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