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Thread: Brexit

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACK POWER View Post
    And as an aside, Junkers seems to have a bit of a problem with the hooch alright. Would any of you lot who use this to beat up on the EU care to speculate if he is wahoooed on the job more often than your unquestioned hero Churchill was? Just saying like. And to save you the trouble, I'm not equating the two in any other way.


    Where's your sense of adventure and fun?


    TBH Jack if he hadn't been instrumental in consigning 30 million young to a future of no future (if you think employment comes into the argument anyway) so that northern Europes important wealthy could stay that way I'd happily excuse him his am boozing.

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by carrowmore View Post
    And here is the author of that paper arguing for us to remain in the customs union otherwise there will be a " reinvigorated border on the island of Ireland "


    He is, but doesn’t guess at what ‘reinvigorated’ actually means. Does it mean all vehicles over 3T are asked to present a cargo declaration and one in 50 are checked? Does it mean a number of accredited providers get vehicle tags and submit their contents electronically? Does it mean every personal vehicle is stopped and Passports checked? Does it look like Calais?

    One thing it won’t look like is the Irish Border circa 1997 or the 30 odd years before that.

    There is an easy way out of this and that would be for the EU to allow free trade between goods originating in Ireland and the 🇬🇧. . . . . There’s always been free movement of people so that wasn’t invented in 1974.

    Of course this won’t happen because if it is resolved there will be one less barrier to a smooth Brexit. While that would be good for Ireland and the UK, it appears that the forces running the EU would rather gamble on a disorderly exit to keep us in.

    I wonder why they are so desperate to prevent such an inward looking unrealistic country from leaving such a mutually beneficial union?
    . T

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassy_Knollington View Post
    He is, but doesn’t guess at what ‘reinvigorated’ actually means. Does it mean all vehicles over 3T are asked to present a cargo declaration and one in 50 are checked? Does it mean a number of accredited providers get vehicle tags and submit their contents electronically? Does it mean every personal vehicle is stopped and Passports checked? Does it look like Calais?

    One thing it won’t look like is the Irish Border circa 1997 or the 30 odd years before that.

    There is an easy way out of this and that would be for the EU to allow free trade between goods originating in Ireland and the 🇬🇧. . . . . There’s always been free movement of people so that wasn’t invented in 1974.

    Of course this won’t happen because if it is resolved there will be one less barrier to a smooth Brexit. While that would be good for Ireland and the UK, it appears that the forces running the EU would rather gamble on a disorderly exit to keep us in.

    I wonder why they are so desperate to prevent such an inward looking unrealistic country from leaving such a mutually beneficial union?
    . T
    Ok , lets look at the agri-food sector for example. Food and live animals account for a third of Northern Irish exports to the Republic. Regulatory and standards checks ,including animal welfare and sanitary checks, need to be carried out at borders and will be mandatory if the North diverges on regulations. A report by Northern Ireland's own Institute for Environmental Health states " Technological solutions may or may not be possible in the future, but they do not exist at present. Furthermore, technological solutions cannot replace the need for food inspection by qualified and competent food professionals. Proper food inspection requires someone to look inside lorries and make judgements about critical food safety and standards.”

    That sounds to me like a highly " invigorated " border and not exactly what was agreed to in the government's backstop. Why is it that on this issue ideology seems to trump facts for so many ?

    Food, Brexit and Northern Ireland: Critical Issues – Food Brexit Briefings – Food Research Collaboration
    Last edited by carrowmore; Yesterday at 10:22 AM.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by carrowmore View Post
    Ok , lets look at the agri-food sector for example. Food and live animals account for a third of Northern Irish exports to the Republic. Regulatory and standards checks ,including animal welfare and sanitary checks, need to be carried out at borders and will be mandatory if the North diverges on regulations. A report by Northern Ireland's own Institute for Environmental Health states " Technological solutions may or may not be possible in the future, but they do not exist at present. Furthermore, technological solutions cannot replace the need for food inspection by qualified and competent food professionals. Proper food inspection requires someone to look inside lorries and make judgements about critical food safety and standards.”

    That sounds to me like a a highly " invigorated " border and not exactly what was agreed to in the government's backstop. Why is it that on this issue ideology seems to trump facts for so many ?

    Food, Brexit and Northern Ireland: Critical Issues – Food Brexit Briefings – Food Research Collaboration
    It's not a fact that standards will diverge, border inspections will become mandatory and a physical border will be created.

    What is far more likely is that standards will remain identical (they will) and goods will continue, as they are now without a border, to be inspected at source and or destination where goods are required to meet animal welfare or food standards. All that's left is to collect taxes/tarrifs which is easy when there is a record of all these transactions.

    I don't think that is ideology. It's common sense and far the most likely outcome. However, that doesn't suit the agenda of some so we get all these hypothetical worst case scenarios trotted out to muddy the waters.

  5. #205

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    I voted Remain, not because of a liking for the institutions of the EU, but I accept we lost the vote and now must leave. I think we could have got a pretty good deal if the negotiations had been handled well, but sadly they have been thoroughly bungled. We are now staring down the barrel of a worst of all worlds deal, we will be a colony of the EU accepting the rules and regulations, paying the fees and having no say in decisions and no ability to make external trade deals of our own. This will suit no one so the real question, IMO, is where do we go from here? Do we plough on regardless and get a terrible outcome? Do we throw in the towel and renege on the referendum result?

    My view is that either we go back to the EU with our tails between our legs and ask them to forget about Article 50, or we say sorry all deals are off we are just going to leave and that's that. The EU will have to allow a border treaty with Ireland to be seperate to the EU or have a hard border. It seems to me to carry on as we are is pure madness. Anyone got some better ideas?

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    I voted Remain, not because of a liking for the institutions of the EU, but I accept we lost the vote and now must leave. I think we could have got a pretty good deal if the negotiations had been handled well, but sadly they have been thoroughly bungled. We are now staring down the barrel of a worst of all worlds deal, we will be a colony of the EU accepting the rules and regulations, paying the fees and having no say in decisions and no ability to make external trade deals of our own. This will suit no one so the real question, IMO, is where do we go from here? Do we plough on regardless and get a terrible outcome? Do we throw in the towel and renege on the referendum result?

    My view is that either we go back to the EU with our tails between our legs and ask them to forget about Article 50, or we say sorry all deals are off we are just going to leave and that's that. The EU will have to allow a border treaty with Ireland to be seperate to the EU or have a hard border. It seems to me to carry on as we are is pure madness. Anyone got some better ideas?
    I am in exactly the same position. No great love of the EU but I would rather be involved with the shake up they are going to have than not and we no longer have the calibre of people in Westminster and Whitehall to negotiate an exit. Frankly I would like to see another referendum with three choices, May's proposal, a hard exit or stay. And then act on the result. Sadly won't happen.

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