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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Smolt) View Post
    Gunther has a certain flair, I imagine watching him cast is like watching a performance.

    Just one question, if you were just to switch hands and use your "bad" hand with a haul would you overcome the problems this cast is designed for? I don't do much boat fishing so maybe I am over looking the efficacy of the cast, it looks beautiful regardless!
    Hi Liam,

    You're right about Gunther. He has great knowledge of casting too.

    Absolutely you would overcome the problem that way.

    The problem this cast is designed to overcome is efficient casting on the off side when there are adverse winds for casting on your good side. Rather than making the back cast your final delivery, or turning around to make two forward casts e.t.c., or for those who have not yet learned double hauling on their off side - which it has to be said very few will ever do.

    If you do learn that however (double haul on your off side) there's no need to cast this way except for the style and joy of it, it sure looks good, and feels good. One of the best looking casts to watch I've come across when looking at it performed well. It has a certain unique look and attraction.

    The good thing about this cast, or indeed double hauling with left hand on the rod and right hand on the line, is that the days you have to do such casts due to adverse wind on the right side, the wind is then actually a big help as it keeps everything taut and safely away from you.

    For casting techniques sake, and absolutely really only for the sake of casting technique alone, if you can double haul on your off side, you can even then do that particular cast by switching hands and sides. Change hands to put left hand on the rod (for a right handed caster), move the rod over to your right side, line in the right hand and delay the haul. However its completely redundant to cast that way on your good side except purely for messing around.
    Last edited by minitube; 04-03-2018 at 07:31 PM.
    What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? What's the proper salutation between people as they pass each other in this flood?
    Buddha

  2. #12

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    Cheers Robert,
    Lovely to watch, absolutely. You mentioned double hauling on your bad side, it is a skill that is time consuming to get to grips with, I've been trying to learn it intermittently but you've highlighted another option for me so will gladly take it up
    Over the past 2-3 seasons I've been using a single hander for my salmon fishing as much as a I possibly can. There is a pure enjoyment to it and it is interesting how you sometimes naturally try to overcome obstacles/issues in achieving the desired cast/distance with a single hander. Gurus like Gunther are very refreshing.

  3. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Smolt) View Post
    Cheers Robert,
    Lovely to watch, absolutely. You mentioned double hauling on your bad side, it is a skill that is time consuming to get to grips with, I've been trying to learn it intermittently
    Essential to get the rod movement perfected alone first with different lengths of line up to what is reasonably manageable one handed. In the Peter Anderson style I was taught by him right from the very beginning, from the basic cast, to use both arms. He changed your rod hand every half hour for the basic cast. Its relatively easy to spot and Anderson trained caster as they do not drop the rod tip behind during the power application but work along an incline with the wrist and arm. Some E.F.F.A. Instructors I have met do this too as the norm during the power application and refer to it as directing the rod tip, or ensuring the directing of the rod tip.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Smolt) View Post
    but you've highlighted another option for me so will gladly take it up
    Over the past 2-3 seasons I've been using a single hander for my salmon fishing as much as a I possibly can. There is a pure enjoyment to it and it is interesting how you sometimes naturally try to overcome obstacles/issues in achieving the desired cast/distance with a single hander. Gurus like Gunther are very refreshing.
    I have been using the single hand rod much more myself over the last two seasons on both the Erriff and Delphi systems than I would have on the Moy. While I can double haul left hand on the rod I now prefer to use Gunters cast. There's just something special and very rewarding about it. As mentioned before I will turn the wrist a quarter turn though for the longer heavier rated rods and lines.

    Twice over that time I've had strangers come up to me and ask about it with the comment what is that cast you are doing? They noticed that it was somehow different from what eveyone else does. Not to mention it was worth a few euro in tips at times from guests for teaching them it to more effectively deal with the wind without having to use their left hand.
    Last edited by minitube; 05-03-2018 at 09:20 AM.
    What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? What's the proper salutation between people as they pass each other in this flood?
    Buddha

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by minitube View Post
    Not to mention it was worth a few euro in tips at times from guests for teaching them it to more effectively deal with the wind without having to use their left hand.
    Score!

  5. #15
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    May 2008
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    Dublin
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    Robert, what about Gunter's index-finger-forward grip?
    What's the advantage of that grip over the more usual thumb-on-top grip?
    Does Gunter's grip help in the quarter turn stance?
    I noticed you used the same grip at the demonstration.
    I would associate such a grip with lighter lines than the #7 or #8 weight one might use for single handed salmon fly-fishing.
    H

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernicus View Post
    Robert, what about Gunter's index-finger-forward grip?
    Hi Donal,
    the finger on top grip is the standard grip for fly casting in most of mainland Europe. Certainly for river trout fishing. Its the norm there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernicus View Post
    What's the advantage of that grip over the more usual thumb-on-top grip?
    They consider for accuracy, for fine tuned control over presentation casting - where they make curves and bends in the line for obstacles or to counteract currents that would cause fly drag. Also that it helps prevent over rotation of the wrist on the back cast.

    Personally I noticed that it definitely tightens up the back loop a little. I think due to it allowing a slightly sharper or more solid stop on the back cast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernicus View Post
    Does Gunter's grip help in the quarter turn stance?
    Do you mean his open stance or turning the wrist and forearm 90 degrees as I mentioned for longer rods?

    That is the grip he always uses no matter the stance, as do most mainland European casters. My 90 degree turn when I check it is not an accurate description its actually more probably another 30 to 40 degrees with that a 120 - 130 or something. Basically my hand turn for longer rods is the back of my hand facing trajectory used and the palm facing the back cast.

    I'd say that grip probably helps some people stay in plane better and not 'over rotate' or pull in the rod tip behind, however any practiced caster will generally not do that anyway with either grip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernicus View Post
    I noticed you used the same grip at the demonstration.
    That's observant. I had decided to use this grip almost exclusively since last spring in order to become very familiar with it. As the demo was with a six weight it was no issue. First day I used a five weight but used the six weight the second day as the line on it was orange and therefore easier for people to see. However the rod cork was not a cigar or half wells but a full wells which is not as ideal though can still be used. Much better however with a cigar shape cork taper for finger on top grip casting.
    It feels strange at first when a change is made from anything familiar to something different. The only way for the new way to become normal is a forced familiarity. In the past I was formally trained via strict discipline, there was no choice given. I still use that 'old school' way to learn or change. No pain no gain.
    Its very easy to slip back into what one is most familiar with, its just too easy, and then stop making a change to discover a new and dfferent way. When you give yourself no choice in the matter its the best way.

    I have used finger on top before when distance casting using the 170 degree casting method which uses a finger on top grip for the back cast, and then changes to a V grip for the forward cast. But that's not normal delicate, or fishing casting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernicus View Post
    I would associate such a grip with lighter lines than the #7 or #8 weight one might use for single handed salmon fly-fishing.
    H
    Exactly, it seem for me that there certainly is less power for the forward cast with a finger on top grip initially, that is one of the reasons to persevere with it, to train some muscles up for that way, also that simple familiarity with the technique will improve it through fine tuning. its more at home with trout rods than salmon rods for me normally (apart from the back hand with a quarter turn plus on the off side).
    Last edited by minitube; 09-03-2018 at 07:56 AM.
    What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? What's the proper salutation between people as they pass each other in this flood?
    Buddha

  7. #17
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    Mallow, County Cork, Ireland.
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    Impressive stuff indeed Robert and a very interesting read
    Game Angling Instructors Association

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killbarry View Post
    Impressive stuff indeed Robert and a very interesting read
    Its important to note Damien that is not the same as double hauling on your left side wth the right hand, its a better variation on the technique to achieve the same type of result. Its more ergonomically efficient. The delayed haul is vital. In a normal haul the line had is moving away from the rod, in this one the rod moves away from the line hand initially. It is best learned with the rod only movement first with no line hand move until that is correct.
    Last edited by minitube; 19-05-2018 at 06:35 PM.
    What is the appropriate behavior for a man or a woman in the midst of this world, where each person is clinging to his piece of debris? What's the proper salutation between people as they pass each other in this flood?
    Buddha

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