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  1. #161

    Default One last gurry?

    Well, just when I thought everything had gone quiet you tip-toe in when no one's watching and give the corpse a good "gurry".

    After 9217 recorded views and 159 posts on this topic and only one sneaky dislike from you (to post #25) you finally decide to give us the benefit of your considered view. Maybe you could let us know why you previously thought it more illustrative of your position just to select the dislike button rather than take the time to tell us all in your own words exactly why smolt stocking failed. Although looking at the care you obviously expended in creating and proofing your latest post I think it's probably as well if you did just hit the dislike from now on.
    However, regardless of the difficulty I'll try to interpret what you actually meant by adjusting a few words, inserting some punctuation and guessing where I can what you might have meant.

    I certainly don't intend to honour your post with a detailed point by point answer, not at this late stage. I'll content myself by saying briefly that all the evidence you need confirming the success of the smolt program is already contained in various posts from #01 to #159. You can do your own back reading and by all means if you feel you want to disagree post by post in a reasoned manner, even now it might be fun. To summarise, the only ones who thought smolts were a failure were KmacC and Renna, who you already know personally, who both have vested interests, and who both after brief unsuccessful engagements saw fit to quietly disappear. And then, out of the blue and after my challenge to Renna having remained unanswered for 2 weeks, you suddenly decide to have a sortie. Wierd!

    Correct me if I'm wrong but were you not also closely involved in LLAIA policy and management recently for around 5 years? How much habitat was improved, how many spawning areas were improved in that time under your tenure. And if the answer is none, and it is, why now do you decide to put your faith in something you so studiously avoided doing.?

    I will confirm, simply because it's an easy rebuttal that requires no time,*that your memory is indeed wrong in that smolts were never at any time "dumped" anywhere in the Leven, or anywhere else for that matter, as you aver. There was a limited measured experiment, as per the info laid out in ColinM's #1 original post, to see whether a known number of hatchery reared smolts released directly into the River Leven just above the tide would have a % survival rate better than those having to circumnavigate the main predator zones of the Endrick, the Loch and the Leven Barrage after having been raised in the upper Endrick. Hardly a typical or unregulated mass "dump" but a targetted, reasoned experiment. .
    As for you personally deciding that the best policy is not to intervene in anything before the system hits rock bottom, if there's ever a statement that better illustrates your unsuitability to have been involved in any important decision making, thats it. And that's exactly why you're now sitting typing from a position of safety (as far as LLAIAs members are concerned) and far away from anything you could further damage.
    From what I saw you and some of your pals did your best to ensure we quickly reached that rock bottom status, right up until an internal revolt brutally excorcised further LLFT influence or direct involvement in LLAIA management decisions. So far since then most of them have kept their heads firmly down, and resisted any impulse to defend their position or justify the mess they've left us in. If you think that's all going to be forgotten and reversed by your one disjointed post with a sentence lasting a paragraph you have a short and selective memory.


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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander gus View Post
    Is the data to confirm the stocking was a major success if my memory serves me right there was a rush to dump smolt in the Leven, rather than the spawning river which one had hoped they would return to, do you collated numbers of these smolts which were fin clipped were subsequently caught and in the grand scheme of Mother Nature where were these fish going to spawn if not retrieved and transported back above the falls, yep you getbpoor seasons and good seasons but one thing is sure despite our worst efforts salmon still cling on and survive, I am not convinced that any smolt programme on the Endrick will improve the brooding capacity, other than managing it and improving the quality of the spawning areas youíd probably get more bang from your buck than the thousands spent rearing fry to a smolting stage, if our system was devoid of fish then I too would back intervention but itís not yet hit rock bottom.

  2. #162

    Default ,

    Zorro / Mr Fox

    Sorry, was it pistols or swords? I donít recall your second calling my second with your challenge 😂. FYI, I actually have a life, therefore whatever the challenge you threw my way 2 weeks ago, along with the rest of your posts, have gone un-read.

    If you can be bothered why donít you pm me the details and I will cover it in my own thread which I will post sometime soon and is tentatively entitled ďThe £100,000 question, does a 0.4% return rate equate to a successful smolt programmeĒ

    See you at the AGM.

  3. #163

    Default Won't hold my breath.

    Just you take care and dinny strain yourself too hard in your real life. Any time you're ready you just post away till your wee hearts content.


  4. #164
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Tyne valley


    Quote Originally Posted by Colin M View Post
    The title of my post may be a bit mis-leading.
    Iím not advocating a full smolt programme like Delphi or Burrishoole which are both ranching operations.
    What I was trying to do was inform anglers about what we tried back then - and we then did see it as a smolt programme Ė and move the discussion onto our realisation that maybe itís better not to go the whole hog with all the expense of a smolt programme. Bringing fish onto the fingerling stage would be much cheaper Ė reconditioning of kelts would remove the need to take fish every year from the wild but maybe even better could be the idea of moving surplus wild fry that would likely perish due to habitat limitations and predation into unused, inaccessible habitat on the same river.
    Iím still a bit sceptical about the genetic influence of stocking. Stocking in one form or another has taken place on Lomond for over 100 years with hardly a break but we are told that there are still two distinct genetic strains on the Endrick Ė Upper Endrick fish and lower Endrick fish. So 100 years of stocking hasnít caused to much of a problem there as far as the current information goes.
    Coming to this a bit late... but isn't that because they all die before they breed so they don't contribute to the current gene pool?

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Sep 2015


    Quote Originally Posted by Philor View Post
    Coming to this a bit late... but isn't that because they all die before they breed so they don't contribute to the current gene pool?

    Who? The posters or the fish?

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