Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  26
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Cumbria
    Posts
    190

    Post Salmon catches declining ?.

    There are lots of discussions & reviews on the Forum about rods , lines, leaders ,flies etc. but there does not seam to be much said about lack of fish in the rivers, or is the Eden the only one suffering?..........

    In the 15 years of C & R on the river, catch returns have shown no increase and many beats are now catching less than before the restrictions. Habitat improvement has been carried out over this time as the E. A. said that was the way forward......

    How ever this has action has also benefitted the predators over which there does not seem to be any control.

    From tomorrow we are allowed to kill 2 fish per day until Sept 9th when from then to the end of the season you can kill 2 cock fish per day.
    So if there are only 2 fish left in a river system a hen & cock, you could kill the cock!!!!!!
    How barmy & irresponsible is that idea.

    Conditions at sea are blamed for our declining river stocks nothing is said about incompetent management of our rivers. So you could have all the best tackle in the world but if there are no fish to catch ???????????.......
    Last edited by digbyhodgson; 15-06-2013 at 09:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nordic Noir
    Posts
    4,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digbyhodgson View Post
    There are lots of discussions & reviews on the Forum about rods , lines, leaders ,flies etc. but there does not seam to be much said about lack of fish in the rivers, or is the Eden the only one suffering?..........

    In the 15 years of C & R on the river, catch returns have shown no increase and many beats are now catching less than before the restrictions. Habitat improvement has been carried out over this time as the E. A. said that was the way forward......

    How ever this has action has also benefitted the predators over which there does not seem to be any control.

    From tomorrow we are allowed to kill 2 fish per day until Sept 9th when from then to the end of the season you can kill 2 cock fish per day.
    So if there are only 2 fish left in a river system a hen & cock, you could kill the cock!!!!!!
    How barmy & irresponsible is that idea.

    Conditions at sea are blamed for our declining river stocks nothing is said about incompetent management of our rivers. So you could have all the best tackle in the world but if there are no fish to catch ???????????.......
    the whole wildlife management is in a complete mess. salmon fishing is in peril and in a cleft stick, complain about the scarcity of fish and see a rod and line ban, or keep quiet.

    I wonder if it wouldn't be better when they go extinct and then we re-stock with a more viable species? then we could all spey cast and catch big fish on our marvellous rods?

    pacifics, triploids, who knows.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    stepps, Glasgow
    Posts
    6,916

    Default

    They're coming back IMVHO. I aint too worried as I was in the late 80's early 90's!! thought I would have eff all to fish for now. . . back then!!

    Said before that decline was IMVHO attributed to poor farming techniques, aforrestation (acid, quick run off, sedementation etc), a bigger "take" of nets cos of "yuppie" demand for salmon and warmer winters meaning springers dropped off a bit. Fling in the resultant lack of fishers, drop in ghillies, the PC brigade and the "do not shoot anything" culture and you have neglected stretches of river where poaching, predation runs unabated.

    The angler was a wet fart of inconvenience to the salmon. I am a little concerned for the salmon re the Greenland situation but Ijust hope that it is only a small scale op and closely monitored.
    remember when salmon fishing was at its "best" in modern years (60's / early 70's) salmon were netted unabated at the estuary, netted at high seas, cymaged and netted by desperoados and caught and chapped by them nasty angler types and STILL came back.
    It is indeed Digby the habitat and spawning conditions that matter most.
    So in summary I do not allude to your scenario that there are nowt to catch.

    BTW nice controversial reply from Compy. IF genuine probably sums up my thoughts in modern day salmon fishing i.e. "put and take" salmon rivers when the wild component has disappeared!!!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Carlisle
    Posts
    443

    Default Salmon Catches

    I ve fished for over 30 years, salmon and trout, rivers have probably never been cleaner, efforts by anglers and various associations to improve salmon numbers has never been greater. But sometimes when you're out fishing now you can just feel there's nothing there, I know some rivers are having a good year, the Eden had a great spring last season, the Border Esk a good run of seatrout last season. The Tyne this year seems to be struggling, after many years of improvement, the Derwent had a disaster last season ! Why do some rivers improve for a season then fall back again? Average catches seem to stay the same over a 10 year period, surely if we are returning a greater percent of fish the catches should be increasing ? I still can not see why commercial netting of salmon is still permitted, once the nets have the fish, that's it, no hotel to benefit from anglers visits, no pub or tackle shop, the netted fish is worth x amount, the fish still in the river is worth 10x . I do hope that this shortsighted view can be altered but I also hope I could win the lottery and run off in a Ferrari with Kelly Brook !

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Yorkshire
    Posts
    3,127

    Default

    How much is the sea lice soup off the West coast of Scotland affecting the Solway, Lakes and Lancashire rivers? Interesting letter and graphs in this months FF&FT showing the apparent correlation between the start of salmon farming and the decline in the Nith's rod catches, declines mirrored by the other Solway rivers according to the author. I am hoping that recent decline in the Tynes catches is a blip caused by the usual vagaries of nature.
    The point about the English spring C&R regulations being completely ineffective is one that I and several other members have raised during the eternal C&R debates on here and imo show the danger of relying on C&R as a management tool. Even the EA admitted they hadn't worked when they came up for renewal but didnm't know what else to do so renewed them. We must be seen to be doing something syndrome!

    SP8

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rocky Mountains
    Posts
    388

    Default

    Of course they are declining. Nearly every WILD population on earth right now is in decline. For one reason or another.

    Hatchery fish are not the answer. In time you will see the exact same scenario with them that has been seen with hatchery steelhead populations in their native range. Go like gangbusters for a while. Productivity falls off a cliff. If hatchery fish are the answer...then why worry about escapee's interacting with wild fish? Disease aside (and all hatch stocks are at more risk to contract and spread disease), the genetics of fish breed to perform in a hatchery are detrimental if passed on to fish that live under the pressures of a natural environment. River and stock specific hatchery fish are only shades of grey better. Same result will happen- wild fish will be breed out of existence over time. Hatchery SAR will drop and drop and drop.

    C&R is worthless as a recovery tool, let alone conservation measure, as nearly every case the fish were not/still are not being over-harvested by anglers.

    As for the insinuation that massive harvest of the past (nets) is not to blame...actually it probably is. And the anglers taking prime genetics of female salmon (trophy MSW fish, especially repeat spawners) is also part of the equation of 'where did the big fish go'. Granted the nets did (and still do) nearly all the damage...but trophies were taken without any regard by rod and line.

    Once you overharvest a vertebrate species, alter its habitat on all fronts (death by a thousand cuts), altering the ecosystem in the process, adding in new problems (open net pen salmon farms and their food source, hatchery fish)...how many (species) have shown the resiliency to rebound to pre-impact levels? Especially a species with such a complicated life cycle? As the human population continues to explode?

    Thankfully we still have salmon with some years being better than others. And there is a long way to go before the end of recreational sport.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    same planet diffrent world
    Posts
    3,742

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SP8 View Post
    How much is the sea lice soup off the West coast of Scotland affecting the Solway, Lakes and Lancashire rivers? Interesting letter and graphs in this months FF&FT showing the apparent correlation between the start of salmon farming and the decline in the Nith's rod catches, declines mirrored by the other Solway rivers according to the author. I am hoping that recent decline in the Tynes catches is a blip caused by the usual vagaries of nature.
    The point about the English spring C&R regulations being completely ineffective is one that I and several other members have raised during the eternal C&R debates on here and imo show the danger of relying on C&R as a management tool. Even the EA admitted they hadn't worked when they came up for renewal but didnm't know what else to do so renewed them. We must be seen to be doing something syndrome!

    SP8
    off the Solway rivers the nith has fallen on hard times recently . but the annan has had record catches over the last few years , this is mirrored through out many systems ......

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Culrain. Sutherland
    Posts
    2,644

    Default

    Not up this way, most of the Carron beats have had a fantastic start to the season and as I understand, the Shin is having it's best season in 40 years

    And long may it continue

    Paul

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Yorkshire
    Posts
    3,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by love 2 fish View Post
    off the Solway rivers the nith has fallen on hard times recently . but the annan has had record catches over the last few years , this is mirrored through out many systems ......
    If you get chance read the letter, I would be interested to get your perspective on the authors view. He particularly refers to grilse catches being affected and talks of the huge numbers caught in the Cree and other Solway rivers in years gone by. Of course it has been seen elsewhere that grilse catches can be cyclical. I know the Annan seems to be bucking the trend of other North West rivers but how do the catches actually compare with the 50's and early 60's say? Do you have any numbers?
    I think it is too early to get our heads in hands because as you say there is a lot to be encouraged about but there is no doubt that there is a major disparity between the west coast and the east coast. Catches on one side are holding up or improving generally whilst the opposite seems to be the case on the other side.

    SP8

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SP8 View Post
    The point about the English spring C&R regulations being completely ineffective is one that I and several other members have raised during the eternal C&R debates on here and imo show the danger of relying on C&R as a management tool. Even the EA admitted they hadn't worked when they came up for renewal but didnm't know what else to do so renewed them. We must be seen to be doing something syndrome!

    SP8
    Living and working on the Tyne I constantly hear this one. People say to me that the Tyne spring run hasn't grown significantly in the 14yrs since the introduction of compulsory C&R in 1999.

    So, in their eyes it must not be working and we should be able to go back to chapping them.

    Try as I might I just cant seem to get my head around this logic. Surely if by returning everything pre 16th June isn't showing any growth then clearly we still have a stock level that is perilously close to going downhill, we are at best maintaining a status quo and therefor can we afford to kill any

    I applauded the EA decision to stay with spring C&R on the basis of that old Geordie saying "if in doubt, do nowt!" - not killing a fish can never do stocks any harm.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •