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  1. #1

    Default Usan fisheries in the news - have your comment

    I saw this earlier in the week and posted in the conservation threads but unfortunately did't get much response so it was suggested by Westie that i should post it on here.

    Usan Fisheries: the last salmon netters in Angus | The List

    i know this has been discussed at length on here but this story has a comments section at the bottom, for what it's worth, i have commented on it, as has Gwelsher. Have a look, It might be good to put your points across?

  2. #2
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    Thanks for posting it here Dorcfisher!

    The Southie is certainly suffering this year, can count - literally - on one hand how many salmon I've seen on our water in the past month.

    All the lies that would have had residents in them by early May remain fishless.....have never seen the Southie so quiet in all the years I've fished it.
    ..........so many flies, so little time!

  3. #3
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    Just wondering how the members on here get so up tight about flys etc when a problem like netting that is one of the most importaint facing the fish hardly gets a mention.
    Page after page on lines/rods/flys/baits etc and yet what is the point if there is no fish in the river.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by goosander View Post
    Just wondering how the members on here get so up tight about flys etc when a problem like netting that is one of the most importaint facing the fish hardly gets a mention.
    Page after page on lines/rods/flys/baits etc and yet what is the point if there is no fish in the river.
    Bob
    goosander i think the whole netting fiasco has been far from ignored on this forum lately and the fact of the matter here is if you want a thread to get the exposure needed it has to be on the general board it's where everyone comes first, yes springer created sub category sections but they don't get the attention and never will so people post in the general.
    I don't think dorcfishers thread was ignored but unoticed though a lot of people have had belly full of this debate and problem after recent threads got nasty and messy!

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    They are working with scientists....

    What can a dead fish tell the scientist ?
    Last edited by salmonshrimp; 14-07-2012 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by salmonshrimp View Post
    They are working with scientists....

    What can a dead fish tell the scientist ?
    As much as a living one, I suspect. Reminds me of the shaggy dog story of Salmon Rusty and the Titanic.................

  7. #7

    Thumbs up Pray tell!

    Quote Originally Posted by salar35 View Post
    As much as a living one, I suspect. Reminds me of the shaggy dog story of Salmon Rusty and the Titanic.................
    C,mon Dave relate the tale..

    I'll be wondering aboot this aw day

    Abbie Barclay.
    Last edited by doctorsalmon; 14-07-2012 at 02:43 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by salar35 View Post
    As much as a living one, I suspect. Reminds me of the shaggy dog story of Salmon Rusty and the Titanic.................
    But the real story ends when the fish dies

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorcfisher View Post
    I saw this earlier in the week and posted in the conservation threads but unfortunately did't get much response so it was suggested by Westie that i should post it on here.

    Usan Fisheries: the last salmon netters in Angus | The List

    i know this has been discussed at length on here but this story has a comments section at the bottom, for what it's worth, i have commented on it, as has Gwelsher. Have a look, It might be good to put your points across?
    Not much to say really, other than note that contrary to the view of the NASF rep in reply on the website originally posed by Dorcfisher, does anyone else hold the view that salmon fishing by fixed nets is more sustainable than other types when conducted in this way?... Someone asked me if NASF wants them to go over to trawling the sea-bed, and producing more unsustainable cod, with lots of dead and discarded bycatch...

    Here is a response below the article on the link quoted by the OP:
    Quote Originally Posted by Orri Vigfússon (purportedly)
    Richard Lockhead,
    The Minister for Rural Affairs

    Dear Minister,

    As you may know, Scotland as part of the UK is the only EU member state that operates a policy of mixed-stock wild salmon fisheries along its coastline. Over the last two decades most of the salmon killed by Scottish netsmen are fish that have been spared by other states. These nations have voluntarily agreed to a moratorium on the netting and long-lining of wild salmon in order to allow more salmon to return to their natural spawning grounds.

    Scotland, on the other hand, seems to be unable to grasp the obvious. 1 The indiscriminate netting by Scottish netsmen produces a poor economic return from what should be one of Scotland’s most valuable resources. 2In addition to the needless damage done by commercial netting the poorly regulated fish farming industry has accelerated a decline in the stocks of wild salmon. Some would say that in this respect Scotland has a very impressive record of thoughtless economic and environmental vandalism.

    3During this period, the economic value of the angling industry to local rural communities has been a mere fraction of what it could have been if greater numbers of salmon were allowed to return to spawn in the rivers of their birth. It seems to me that your office has behaved recklessly in permitting your netsmen to kill more and more of diminishing resources (salmon, cod and mackerel).

    Your government’s support for indiscriminate mixed-stock netting is outdated. 4 It is universally condemned as being unsustainable by scientists and 5if it is allowed to continue it can only result in wiping out annual salmon runs.

    The sad fact is this situation is quite unnecessary. 6The problem can be solved quite painlessly for the netsmen with the aid of compensation if they stop salmon fishing and assistance to re-equip their boats and gear so that they can switch their efforts to other and sustainable forms of fishing.

    You should remember that the biomass of the Scottish salmon is created in the feeding grounds off the Faroe Islands, Iceland and Greenland, where thankfully, Scotland and the EU have no jurisdiction. I would remind you that if you insist on continuing your current strategy the inevitable outcome will be disastrous whether the stocks begin to improve or deteriorate. 7If by some miracle your stocks begin to recover and the Scottish netting continued the commercial fishermen of these other countries would be entitled to take these extra salmon at sea as fair quotas. So the bulk of the extra fish would never return to the native rivers of Scotland and Norway.

    8The recent award of yet another huge EU grant to Scotland’s salmon netsmen raises a question. Why are you so intent on supporting a dying netting industry, especially when 9that industry is wrecking what remains of the wild stocks of salmon in so many rivers?

    The Atlantic’s salmon stocks are international and need to be managed through international cooperation. But I assure you, Minister, I speak for many other salmon nations when I say we are appalled at having to witness the continuation of a Scottish salmon policy that has so little regard for the future.

    Sincerely,


    Orri Vigfússon
    There are of course, other views, not that I’d ever feel comfortable giving a politician ammo

    1. The use of the word indiscriminate is not factually correct surely.
    Certainly not in relation to real indiscriminate netting like cod for example.

    2. Ho ho. It appears that the honourable gent has his facts the wrong way round. As we can demonstrate, Scots salmon rod-catches have been steadily climbing over the last 20-odd years, to record numbers recently. The EXCEPTION to that is the W coast in areas where salmon farming is prevalent. Surely the Saint should be *****ing about that, rather than making such a big thing about a potentially sustainable fishery.

    3. Forget the factual errors, the main impediment to Scots fishing tourism is not due to netting, it appears to be directly related to salmon farming on the W coast, why not do something about that?

    4. It most certainly is not “universally condemned”, in fact mixed stock netting of salmon is elsewhere totally sustainable and MSC certified. Of course, it may be LESS sustainable than single stock netting, but the UK is poorly equipped to actually confirm single-stocks (refer to a spat Noreaster {who-he? Ed.} and I had elsewhere;D). To infer that it is universally condemned by all scientists is patently rubbish. Scotland has quite a few scientists working for Marlab, including Salmon inspectors, do they universally condemn this?

    There appears to be is no evidence in UK to support the view that in UK mixed stock netting of salmon is unsustainable. Look at the NE Drift Nets: a mixed-stock fishery. Taking fish from the E coast of GB, bound for many rivers. Good returns, have the East Cost rod-catches been affected, even when the nets have bumper years, not likely.

    5. Guff, IMHO.

    6. Salmon netting has been severely impacted by salmon farming, and it is no surprise to see the apologists of salmon farming trying to have small netting concerns wiped off the face of the earth, likewise the upstream proprietors who think they’re losing out, and their vocal spokespeople. So, what is proposed when re-fitting boats? Trawling, perhaps go over to salmon farming. How sustainable, in comparison

    7. Since post-industrialisation and acid rain decline, GB salmon stocks have demonstrably recovered over the last decades. A businessman should understand increased supply would lead to increased demand, and there’s more likelihood of sustainability. We’ve come a long way from the 1980s when everyone considered it all doom and gloom.

    8. Is it really such a huge grant? Compared to the monies involved in the salmon farming industry which actually CAN be demonstrated to totally decimate wild salmon stocks. IMHO it is important to retain our heritage. Netting is part of this, and can help struggling communities.

    9. Perhaps on Planet Bip-Bop it is, but in Scotland, with salmon? Puh-lease. Provide evidence and folk will listen but emotion such as this does not help, nor does it enhance reputations.
    Far more salmon are killed by anglers in Scotland than are killed by netsmen, next you’ll be telling us that’s unsustainable too! the salmon farming industry will be awarding accolades next!

    The biggest threat to wild atlantic salmon is not netting, or rod kill, it is and will remain, whilst the “salmon conservation” organisations and others are ineffectual against it, the farmed atlantic salmon. Stop denigrating anglers and netters who are FAR more sustainable than farmers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucktail Bob View Post
    ...i think the whole netting fiasco has been far from ignored on this forum lately......a lot of people have had belly full of this debate and problem after recent threads got nasty and messy!
    Indeed, and it doesn't help when folk appear to bend the truth to stir the pot a little, eh Buck-tells-tales Bob?
    Last edited by seeking; 21-07-2012 at 12:16 AM.
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


    Fed up of debating C&R - see Hidden Content

    Unless otherwise stated, data used in any graph/figure/table are Crown copyright, used with the permission of MSS and/or EA and/or ICES. MSS / EA / ICES are not responsible for interpretation of these data by third parties

  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by seeking View Post
    Not much to say really, other than note that contrary to the view of the NASF rep in reply on the website originally posed by Dorcfisher, does anyone else hold the view that salmon fishing by fixed nets is more sustainable than other types when conducted in this way?... Someone asked me if NASF wants them to go over to trawling the sea-bed, and producing more unsustainable cod, with lots of dead and discarded bycatch...

    Here is a response below the article on the link quoted by the OP:


    There are of course, other views, not that I’d ever feel comfortable giving a politician ammo

    1. The use of the word indiscriminate is not factually correct surely.
    Certainly not in relation to real indiscriminate netting like cod for example.

    2. Ho ho. It appears that the honourable gent has his facts the wrong way round. As we can demonstrate, Scots salmon rod-catches have been steadily climbing over the last 20-odd years, to record numbers recently. The EXCEPTION to that is the W coast in areas where salmon farming is prevalent. Surely the Saint should be *****ing about that, rather than making such a big thing about a potentially sustainable fishery.

    3. Forget the factual errors, the main impediment to Scots fishing tourism is not due to netting, it appears to be directly related to salmon farming on the W coast, why not do something about that?

    4. It most certainly is not “universally condemned”, in fact mixed stock netting of salmon is elsewhere totally sustainable and MSC certified. Of course, it may be LESS sustainable than single stock netting, but the UK is poorly equipped to actually confirm single-stocks (refer to a spat Noreaster {who-he? Ed.} and I had elsewhere;D). To infer that it is universally condemned by all scientists is patently rubbish. Scotland has quite a few scientists working for Marlab, including Salmon inspectors, do they universally condemn this?

    There appears to be is no evidence in UK to support the view that in UK mixed stock netting of salmon is unsustainable. Look at the NE Drift Nets: a mixed-stock fishery. Taking fish from the E coast of GB, bound for many rivers. Good returns, have the East Cost rod-catches been affected, even when the nets have bumper years, not likely.

    5. Guff, IMHO.

    6. Salmon netting has been severely impacted by salmon farming, and it is no surprise to see the apologists of salmon farming trying to have small netting concerns wiped off the face of the earth, likewise the upstream proprietors who think they’re losing out, and their vocal spokespeople. So, what is proposed when re-fitting boats? Trawling, perhaps go over to salmon farming. How sustainable, in comparison

    7. Since post-industrialisation and acid rain decline, GB salmon stocks have demonstrably recovered over the last decades. A businessman should understand increased supply would lead to increased demand, and there’s more likelihood of sustainability. We’ve come a long way from the 1980s when everyone considered it all doom and gloom.

    8. Is it really such a huge grant? Compared to the monies involved in the salmon farming industry which actually CAN be demonstrated to totally decimate wild salmon stocks. IMHO it is important to retain our heritage. Netting is part of this, and can help struggling communities.

    9. Perhaps on Planet Bip-Bop it is, but in Scotland, with salmon? Puh-lease. Provide evidence and folk will listen but emotion such as this does not help, nor does it enhance reputations.
    Far more salmon are killed by anglers in Scotland than are killed by netsmen, next you’ll be telling us that’s unsustainable too! the salmon farming industry will be awarding accolades next!

    The biggest threat to wild atlantic salmon is not netting, or rod kill, it is and will remain, whilst the “salmon conservation” organisations and others are ineffectual against it, the farmed atlantic salmon. Stop denigrating anglers and netters who are FAR more sustainable than farmers.



    Indeed, and it doesn't help when folk appear to bend the truth to stir the pot a little, eh Buck-tells-tales Bob?
    Yir a guid yin Seeking

    Abbie Barclay.

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