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  1. #11

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    I wonder if the big Bull Seal is going to adhere to the rules this year. I think we can say with certainty that this big bull seal and the female i have seen it with the last few years eat way more than the small amount of salmon killed & Tagged legitimately on the Council Forth stretch every year. Last year it seemed to be working the Quarry hole right up to Blue Bank pool and even up into Keir & rumours of the odd day out in the fabled Blairdrummond. What about the 5-10 Mergansers who are based all year round in the bedshot streams or the offices or the 20-30 Mergansers who base themselves around Riverside and the bridges during low tides. "DEAL WITH THE REAL PROBLEMS ON THE RIVER AND STOP LAYING BLAME ON THE ANGLERS FOR THE DEMISE OF THE FISHERY WITH CONSTANT RESTRICTIONS". You may be better just putting a sign up saying "FISHERY CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE" and then informing the fishery board it is no longer a fishery so no more levies will be paid.

    Rewind 10 - 15 years ago and you could almost guarantee yourself a springer or see one get caught if you got up very early and went down for first run through the pool or trap. Last time i fished the river was 2 years ago and i went down early thinking i would get first crack at any springer lying about but instead was met by the big bull seal who was in the pool. Anyone who puts up with fishing a beat where there is a resident seal "ALL" year round and is almost guaranteed to be there every time the water rises is in my opinion entitled to have 1 or 2 tags to allow him to keep a fish if he manages to get a small clean one. Not that long ago i had 5 fish on the closing day on the Forth and 2 of them were clean and for the record all went back even though i had a pocket full of tags which i chose not to use.

    Out of Interest was there more than 52 Salmon killed last year on the stretch and tagged ? 52K for levy ?????????????

  2. #12
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    who knows what's been caught, this decision has been fired out and yet there are still no announcements of catch details ?
    I have a feeling this season would be a bit better that of Late too
    we pass this way but once ............

  3. #13

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    Hello all,

    Reading the recent posts about the Forth come as no surprise given the way things have been going over the last few years. There are many factors which have got us to this point, too many to list here, but I would highlight the following that may be worth considering.
    Poor salmon runs now affect almost every river in the country, climate change which has diminished food sources for Salmon is probably the most significant factor, closely followed by predation,
    Record numbers of seals and dolphins which are all protected in law,
    Hugely efficient trawlers whose nets swallow up every species of fish in their way, including salmon.
    Lack of action on our rivers.
    I would without doubt state that the small number of salmon taken by Anglers makes no difference at all in the whole scheme of things.
    So what's left that can realistically be done to improve things and that is the real question. One thing for certain is that ALL relevant parties must work together for the common good. Every effort must be made to address predation in fresh water and that means constant hard work to achieve success. There is no doubt it can be done but it will need Drive and determination to do it.
    Finally 52k in levies is unfair and should be challenged by the Council. This can be appealed and should be.
    It was only 9 years ago that this river recorded 1351 salmon caught on a small stretch of water making it he best beat in the U.K. That year. Whilst it might not get back to that I do believe if everybody who has an influence does their bit it will again be an outstanding fishery.
    All the best to all for the festive season.

    DJ

  4. #14

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    Hi Davy

    Good post but let us remember that 99.99% of fishers on the Forth & Teith have no say or sway at fishery board level and as such cannot "Get Inside" to make change regarding the board initiatives and where they concentrate their efforts. Much has been said and nothing done regarding FEB's & Seals on this system. I recently seen 2 graphs showing Merganser numbers since their protection in 1981 and the catch returns of Atlantic salmon in UK , not surprising that salmon numbers have fallen at the same time FEB's have risen !!!!!!!!!. The Forth & Teith and all other Salmon fisheries in Scotland will continue to decline until people start the fight to eradicate these foreign invaders from the rivers. Regarding constant news of certain Northern Scotland rivers doing well consistently then i would not be surprised if there were very very low numbers of FEB's on these systems or they have found a a way of keeping FEB's away !!!!!!!!. It has been said before and the fishery boards & AST need to go to government and say it like it is and say these birds are killing an industry and sport. Yes we know there might be issues at sea but lets not spend the next 20 years studying the salmon to death with more surveys and projects and smolt tracking. Spend the money on Shotgun cartridges and watch the salmon numbers rise. Let us also remember that the RSPB were not slow to eradicate the hedgehog from Scottish Islands to protect the eggs of their birds, good on them but why can fishers not man up and start protecting their young salmon !!!!! The forth & Teith threads always end up with disgruntled anglers moaning about the board and lack of action and again nothing will change here...

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieL View Post
    Hi Davy

    Good post but let us remember that 99.99% of fishers on the Forth & Teith have no say or sway at fishery board level and as such cannot "Get Inside" to make change regarding the board initiatives and where they concentrate their efforts. Much has been said and nothing done regarding FEB's & Seals on this system. I recently seen 2 graphs showing Merganser numbers since their protection in 1981 and the catch returns of Atlantic salmon in UK , not surprising that salmon numbers have fallen at the same time FEB's have risen !!!!!!!!!. The Forth & Teith and all other Salmon fisheries in Scotland will continue to decline until people start the fight to eradicate these foreign invaders from the rivers. Regarding constant news of certain Northern Scotland rivers doing well consistently then i would not be surprised if there were very very low numbers of FEB's on these systems or they have found a a way of keeping FEB's away !!!!!!!!. It has been said before and the fishery boards & AST need to go to government and say it like it is and say these birds are killing an industry and sport. Yes we know there might be issues at sea but lets not spend the next 20 years studying the salmon to death with more surveys and projects and smolt tracking. Spend the money on Shotgun cartridges and watch the salmon numbers rise. Let us also remember that the RSPB were not slow to eradicate the hedgehog from Scottish Islands to protect the eggs of their birds, good on them but why can fishers not man up and start protecting their young salmon !!!!! The forth & Teith threads always end up with disgruntled anglers moaning about the board and lack of action and again nothing will change here...
    The birds you refer to are a factor but only one of many, that's why it's imperative that those involved in the management of the river work together to make the necessary changes. The wild fisheries review was for me a real disappointment, instead of making recommendations that would have been unpopular with many but necessary they cobbled something together that has spectacularly failed to improve things, why because the government must be seen to be touchy feely so little or no support for them is lost.
    It's tough to allow the killing of animals but in terms of fishery management it's a necessary evil and it was something that was done as a matter of course until recent times.
    My differences with the Board are well documented but they have to lead on this, your correct, survey after survey without taking the appropriate action thereafter is pointless. There are still ways that licences to take care of predation can be granted, more determined effort in this area has to begin and be sustained, there is no excuses for not doing this.
    After all we are taking about a system that not too long ago was right up there with the best, it's worth saving!

  6. #16
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    well said on both posts Davie, but as for these licences , who is it that should be asking for them?
    I cant see any way that below the meetings of forth and teith it would be allowed, it's too public an area for fire arms , thus leaving a very important area where these birds feed easily unguarded not to mention an area where forth, teith and allan smolts will meet up on their perilous journey
    Last edited by wormo; 07-12-2019 at 02:55 PM.
    we pass this way but once ............

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormo View Post
    well said on both posts Davie, but as for these licences , who is it that should be asking for them?
    I cant see any way that below the meetings of forth and teith it would be allowed, it's too public an area for fire arms , thus leaving a very important area where these birds feed easily unguarded not to mention an area where forth, teith and allan smolts will meet up on their perilous journey
    It is the responsibility of the Board to collate the FEB numbers and make the case for a cull license. As far as I am aware they have not yet done so despite recurring requests at public meetings although Alison Baker stated at the meeting in the King Robert 2 years ago that an application was being prepared. I know of no evidence that this was done although I would be delighted to stand corrected.
    That leaves them some 10-15 years behind every other board in Scotland who all have made successful applications and had licenses granted.
    Rarely have I seen more FEBs working a pool anywhere in Scotland than the Bedshot. However, the numbers on the Teith are way out of acceptable levels also with even busy populated river beats such as Callander seeing plenty of these once shy birds.
    Respect My Authorita!!

  8. #18
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    yep tom I remember them talking about the counting , so why when every other system has initiated this have our board sat idle and done nothing
    they should be held accountable to the demise, they are not fit for purpose
    they will also probably reply with no comment when questioned
    🤬
    we pass this way but once ............

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormo View Post
    yep tom I remember them talking about the counting , so why when every other system has initiated this have our board sat idle and done nothing
    they should be held accountable to the demise, they are not fit for purpose
    they will also probably reply with no comment when questioned
    🤬
    There appears to be a focus on the Board's pet project, the Almond though. Plenty P.R. spin derived from the television reports on the multi million Stairway To Livingston project and the latest stunt to grab attention from the anti freeze run off from Edinburgh airport at Cramond more than a month after the last fish has swum past the outlet.
    Nowhere in any of these reports was the question of the cataclysmic decline of a once prolific system of the Teith and Forth. It's almost as if we don't exist except for the cash grab that goes on ad nauseum.
    Very soon the Teith will have similar results to the Almond whereas 10 years ago we would catch 10 or 20 times their total.And it's not that the Almond is getting any better.
    Respect My Authorita!!

  10. #20

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    The time to apply for licenses to peg these FEB's was 1981 when they were granted protection status. Surely every fishery board the length and breadth of the country realized that they were now about to be overrun with these birds. You cannot go from shooting these birds every year on almost all rivers by lots of keepers and Ghilies to stopping overnight and not thinking that a spike in numbers will not have a serious impact on young salmon & sea trout and young trout parr ? There are many stories and tales to be heard from fishermen about how successful these birds are in bringing up all their chicks. I highlighted many years ago the damage that the Bedshot birds were doing every day and since then the numbers have increased every year. Also now there is lots of them hanging around the riverside and old bridge area , i have personally seen around 25 in this location alone. Blue Banks has a few also as well as the daily visits of the cormorants, Fling in Callander ones (6 last time i was there) which are hammering the spring stock youngsters and that is without counting the Lenny birds or any further upstream which you know there will be.

    We all know that the board are 20 years behind on this and even getting a license now will have little impact due to the base line numbers we have at present. Forth & Teith is a FEB sanctuary and always has been. Action needs taken at Government level and it needs to be a joint effort from all the boards not just 1 or 2 . You can see that fishery boards are just pecking away doing there own thing and applying for their own licenses. Time to relay the truth and apply for a cull of real numbers as the fishing in Scotland is getting to the point of not being sustainable to employ keepers and look after bits of waters. Make no mistake when there is no fishers on a river then the rivers become dumping grounds as know one is there to keep an eye on the river.

    Forth & Teith will become (Almost there) just like almost all rivers in Scotland where the quality of the fishing is **** and the chances of a fish are just better than 0. Yes fish will still be caught on the river but not many and how many hours do you need to put in for the chance of eventually getting 1. Elephant is in the room but everyone involved just want's to study the salmon to death and raise funds for more smolt tracking surveys..Most rivers are now at the point where only a very small percentage of young salmon make it to smolt and even get out the river to sea and yet Scientists are all running around asking why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And also let us remember that the way the Fishery boards are run in Scotland means you cannot get in so you cannot do anything at all but sit back and watch a once "Outstanding" fishery collapse... What a true scandal and death of a fishery by a 1000 cuts.

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