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  1. #71
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    Aug 2017
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    Leipzig/Germany
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    Id wish to have had a little bit more knowledge about the right flies and the fishing when the fishing had been really good and the rivers where full of fish. I know now that I had been very lucky in that days gone by...
    Last edited by lax0341; 14-07-2019 at 08:34 PM.

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by clydesider View Post
    Over the years I have met salmon anglers who could catch fish in a drain.......great casters, read the water better than most and killer flies and gear.
    If there was an aspect of salmon fishing that you would like to learn or improve to take it to the next level what would it be for you?
    Mike
    I've been thinking about this one a fair bit, because I am certainly not at the next level, but I'm not sure what single aspect of my fishing I'd like to learn or improve, because there are quite a few that could get better.

    Cracking the code on different waters in different conditions at different times of the year isn't easy. I'm a summer fisherman and I can get a fish out of the 2 or 3 places I fish, I've never landed a true springer on the fly and I always feel like I'm pissing in the wind. Those who can catch in a drain are the type of folk who turn up on new water and have 1 on the bank before breakfast.

    I think what would help me get to that level is being able to master a number of techniques to the same average standard I can fish a down and accross wet fly. That includes fishing sunk lines more effectively, where they are required.

    Secondly, I'd like to have a wee bit more faith in my judgement and spend less time second guessing what I do. Too often I'll turn up planning to fish one way and then I'll get to the water, change the leader a put on a No8 double and a slow sink poly and off I go......


    On another note. A few, rare individuals just have a higher level hunters instinct for fishing, they are a breed apart and the way they read the water, fish their lures and target their fish cannot be replicated in words. However, most of us aren't that special and while there are individual factors such as motor skills (casting) the biggest single determinant of success IMHO is time spent fishing.

    If a Salmon fisherman only fishes for 6 days a year on one river they can still put some fish on the bank but it's fair to say they'll take a long time to learn how to adjust their approach to different places, conditions and times. If the same fisherman gets out 30 days a year they are going to learn (all things being equal), 5 times quicker.

    I don't think it's all about landing fish, that's one aspect of fishing but not the only one. Is somebody taking 25 fish off the Upurkahzhi river the same week every year learning as much about behaviour and conditions as another angler who gets 10 off a number of rivers over 30-40 trips out each year? I don't think they do...

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Posts
    6,850

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    I like this post in many ways GK! That said I was surprised to read you've never had a proper springer on the fly. One of my pet 'peeves' is that I've never managed to get a springer earlier than the 12th of Feb, although I've done that twice. I still yearn that opening day fish.

    I also agree about the one week a year, same beat fisher. I meet this type all the time...sigh. Good luck to them and I'm sure they do get fish on the bank from time to time. I do get narked when they lecture me about fishing though.....same as when it happens on here.
    ..........so many flies, so little time!

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    North Yorks
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    3,853

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    Quote Originally Posted by westie4566 View Post
    I like this post in many ways GK! That said I was surprised to read you've never had a proper springer on the fly. One of my pet 'peeves' is that I've never managed to get a springer earlier than the 12th of Feb, although I've done that twice. I still yearn that opening day fish.

    I also agree about the one week a year, same beat fisher. I meet this type all the time...sigh. Good luck to them and I'm sure they do get fish on the bank from time to time. I do get narked when they lecture me about fishing though.....same as when it happens on here.
    Yes, but you do need to tolerate and encourage them because we need to maximise participation in salmon fishing and broaden its base. The local economy needs their money. Those who are lucky enough to live amidst plentiful fishing are the privileged minority. So please keep your cool, smile and be happy, lucky people.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassy_Knollington View Post
    I've been thinking about this one a fair bit, because I am certainly not at the next level, but I'm not sure what single aspect of my fishing I'd like to learn or improve, because there are quite a few that could get better.

    Cracking the code on different waters in different conditions at different times of the year isn't easy. I'm a summer fisherman and I can get a fish out of the 2 or 3 places I fish, I've never landed a true springer on the fly and I always feel like I'm pissing in the wind. Those who can catch in a drain are the type of folk who turn up on new water and have 1 on the bank before breakfast.

    I think what would help me get to that level is being able to master a number of techniques to the same average standard I can fish a down and accross wet fly. That includes fishing sunk lines more effectively, where they are required.

    Secondly, I'd like to have a wee bit more faith in my judgement and spend less time second guessing what I do. Too often I'll turn up planning to fish one way and then I'll get to the water, change the leader a put on a No8 double and a slow sink poly and off I go......


    On another note. A few, rare individuals just have a higher level hunters instinct for fishing, they are a breed apart and the way they read the water, fish their lures and target their fish cannot be replicated in words. However, most of us aren't that special and while there are individual factors such as motor skills (casting) the biggest single determinant of success IMHO is time spent fishing.

    If a Salmon fisherman only fishes for 6 days a year on one river they can still put some fish on the bank but it's fair to say they'll take a long time to learn how to adjust their approach to different places, conditions and times. If the same fisherman gets out 30 days a year they are going to learn (all things being equal), 5 times quicker.

    I don't think it's all about landing fish, that's one aspect of fishing but not the only one. Is somebody taking 25 fish off the Upurkahzhi river the same week every year learning as much about behaviour and conditions as another angler who gets 10 off a number of rivers over 30-40 trips out each year? I don't think they do...
    I don't know if you've read Topher Browne's giant tome but he explores the concept of effective work rate. This idea resonates strongly with me. Basically the number of salmon you catch is simply down to the number of times you put the right fly, fished in the right way over an undisturbed salmon. I call putting the right fly the right way past an undisturbed fish 1 Browne. The number of Browne's per hour you can achieve is your effective work rate and then it's down to hours fished. Now some days / rivers / conditions / fish will require more Brownes to hook a fish than others. What constitutes the right fly and right way might vary from fish to fish and day to day, river to river, season to season as well. For instance a fish that ignores a hitch might take a sunray or vica versa, etc etc. An undisturbed fish is an interesting concept too. In good water with running fish no resting is required, but in low water with only a few residents constant fishing, even with great care might well ruin your chances for a prolonged period.

    All this aside I think he is probably right about the fundamental maths. The more experience you have the more likely you are to achieve more Brownes per hour, but quality of experience is, IME, just as important. If you spend a bit of time deliberately trying to push your personal boundaries, even at a short term cost, you will improve faster. Just doing the same old thing will not help you improve much.

    The other complication I have found is that all salmon are individuals, albeit with simelar traits, and different rivers often seem to have different success rates for different techniques.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    I don't know if you've read Topher Browne's giant tome but he explores the concept of effective work rate. This idea resonates strongly with me. Basically the number of salmon you catch is simply down to the number of times you put the right fly, fished in the right way over an undisturbed salmon. I call putting the right fly the right way past an undisturbed fish 1 Browne. The number of Browne's per hour you can achieve is your effective work rate and then it's down to hours fished. Now some days / rivers / conditions / fish will require more Brownes to hook a fish than others. What constitutes the right fly and right way might vary from fish to fish and day to day, river to river, season to season as well. For instance a fish that ignores a hitch might take a sunray or vica versa, etc etc. An undisturbed fish is an interesting concept too. In good water with running fish no resting is required, but in low water with only a few residents constant fishing, even with great care might well ruin your chances for a prolonged period.

    All this aside I think he is probably right about the fundamental maths. The more experience you have the more likely you are to achieve more Brownes per hour, but quality of experience is, IME, just as important. If you spend a bit of time deliberately trying to push your personal boundaries, even at a short term cost, you will improve faster. Just doing the same old thing will not help you improve much.

    The other complication I have found is that all salmon are individuals, albeit with simelar traits, and different rivers often seem to have different success rates for different techniques.
    That's all very well but if you have no fish to target, often the case for many these days it seems, then it all becomes rather irrelevant don't you think.
    Last edited by fixedspool; 16-07-2019 at 09:32 AM.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Liverpool
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    3,630

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    I don't know if you've read Topher Browne's giant tome but he explores the concept of effective work rate. This idea resonates strongly with me. Basically the number of salmon you catch is simply down to the number of times you put the right fly, fished in the right way over an undisturbed salmon. I call putting the right fly the right way past an undisturbed fish 1 Browne. The number of Browne's per hour you can achieve is your effective work rate and then it's down to hours fished. Now some days / rivers / conditions / fish will require more Brownes to hook a fish than others. What constitutes the right fly and right way might vary from fish to fish and day to day, river to river, season to season as well. For instance a fish that ignores a hitch might take a sunray or vica versa, etc etc. An undisturbed fish is an interesting concept too. In good water with running fish no resting is required, but in low water with only a few residents constant fishing, even with great care might well ruin your chances for a prolonged period.

    All this aside I think he is probably right about the fundamental maths. The more experience you have the more likely you are to achieve more Brownes per hour, but quality of experience is, IME, just as important. If you spend a bit of time deliberately trying to push your personal boundaries, even at a short term cost, you will improve faster. Just doing the same old thing will not help you improve much.

    The other complication I have found is that all salmon are individuals, albeit with simelar traits, and different rivers often seem to have different success rates for different techniques.
    How do you know when you've achieved a "Browne" ?

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by happy days View Post
    How do you know when you've achieved a "Browne" ?
    You don't!

  9. #79
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    Mar 2008
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    Liverpool
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    You don't!
    So its BS then ?
    Last edited by happy days; 16-07-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by happy days View Post
    So its BS then ?
    If you like. I think of it as a hypothetical, a way of thinking about what I'm doing and why. TB seems to catch a lot of salmon from hard fished public water so it seems to work for him. Luckily there are no certainties in salmon fishing.

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