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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    339

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    I'm not a Rio fan but here's a video for those that are

    https://www.rioproducts.com/learn/choosing-a-spey-line

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ross on Wye
    Posts
    762

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    Whoops almost forgot. Another integrated multi tip scandi is the Michael Evans Dredger that comes with a belly of approx 30ft and 15ft tips. I had one in its original non integrated version and it cast well.

  3. #23

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    I just go fishing and enjoy . I'm not fussed what color my fly line is.. Most of my line's are gaelforce ( bright green) and a cpl of ultraspey shooting heads kit's (white floating head and blue intermediate head) fished with a tapered leader or poly leader and tippet

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    491

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    I don't care about the fly line colour.
    I have fished for several years some crystal clear rivers for brown trout here where 6 m long leaders, size 22 tiny emergers and 10/100 diameter were the usual and only way to catch fis. On the public beats of these rivers the fish are submitted to a very high angling pressure and can be spooked only because of a bad drift.
    I've fished these rivers with a fluoro orange fly line as well as with a tan or light olive fly line, with no difference on the catching rate, in sunny as well as in dull days.
    Walking on the fish, standing high on the bank, moving too quickly and hitting the rocks on the river bottom do far much more damage to the fishing than the fly line colour IMHO.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    339

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    Actually, when you look at the underside of any line of whatever colour from below in the water it generally appears grey or black, depending on the strength and angle of incidence of the ambient light. This is because there is no light reflected upwards from the bottom of the river to illuminate the underside.

    When viewed obliquely (i.e. below 45 degrees elevation from the fish) the visible element will appear as a grey line with a light edge.

    Moreover, the coloured water as found in the Tyne and many Scottish rivers rapidly absorbs the red portion of the spectrum, about 30% per metre travelled through the water. Thus a salmon lying about 1.5 metres deep about 2 metres from an orange object or line will only see some 24% or less of its red content. The net effect is to make orange look grey.

    By and large the physics suggest that the colour of the fly line doesn't make much difference.

    The colour of the fly line doesn't make much difference to anglers? but a fish will see a line coming into their vision at an angle way less than 45 degrees,and depending on where the fish is in a deep or shallower pool the colour will be visible ?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    North Yorks
    Posts
    4,049

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarium View Post
    The colour of the fly line doesn't make much difference to anglers? but a fish will see a line coming into their vision at an angle way less than 45 degrees,and depending on where the fish is in a deep or shallower pool the colour will be visible ?
    It's essential to understand the basic physics of how light behaves in water, which in turn determines what it is possible for the salmon to see.

    At angles below 41 degrees elevation what the salmon will see is a reflection of the underwater scene and little or nothing above or on the surface. Here is an example below, taken with a lens that approximates to a salmon's eye, at a depth of 3' 6" at 2pm in the first week of October.

    p1010625-jpg

    The sky is at the bottom. The trees above the far bank are at the limit of direct vision and beyond them at 41 degrees is the dark shade of the reflection of the bottom and peat-stained water. A fly line on or near the surface in that zone is almost invisible.

    Here is another example, taken on a brighter day in August near midday, again at 3' 6" depth, looking upwards at 45 degrees, of a salmon's left eye view of a shallow fished Blue Charm

    p1010373-jpg

    Notice the clarity of the sky; the brightness of the margin between clarity and reflection; and the darkness of the reflected zone beyond 41 degrees. Again, a fly line in the reflected zone would be physically very difficult to detect.

    It's the physics that limits what can be seen, not the physiology of the salmon's eye. However, it is essential to have some knowledge of the way in which the salmon's eyes work, because they are very different from ours.

    - The focal length is much shorter (about 7mm) and the focus is fixed. They have no mechanism like ours for shifting between near and far objects. As a result evolution has optimised their focal distance around 2.5 metres because that's all you can usefully employ most of the time underwater, which makes them rather short sighted in relation to distant objects.
    - In the ocean their primary means of detecting, locating and acquiring prey is through vibration detection via the sensor array in the lateral line and on the slope of the forehead. The eyes only come into play in the closing stage of acquisition.
    - Unlike us they have no iris to control the amount of light entering the eye, or any eyelids. So when the conditions are very bright they have to rely on a naturally produced pigment to desensitise their extremely good low-light capability. Thus when confronted with scenes like that shown above the effect is to make the dark areas darker and objects within them less distinct.

    Of course in much shallower, trout-depth water, you encounter much higher light levels. The example below is from the Dee in brilliant mid-April sunshine.

    p1010257-copy-jpg

    The water here is 18" deep in the foreground and about 2' at the limit of visibility at 8'. The edge of the sky circle is top centre. There is then about 5-6' of reflective area, and beyond that anything on or near the surface is invisible. In the foreground a salmon would be able to detect the colour of a fly line below the surface, but there again you don't find too many in water only 18" deep.

    The deeper a salmon is lying the larger the sky circle (known as Window 3). For a fish 6' down it's about 6' across. As it nears the surface Window 3 shrinks the reflectivity of the Window 2 reflection zone increases. On many salmon rivers the reflection zone will be affected by surface waves and disturbances that create a kaleidoscopic effect, which breaks up the image of anything on or near the surface, making detection and identification correspondingly more difficult.

    Then we start running into the problems of knowing what the salmon "sees". We can work out what it can detect and the limits of its vision from basic physics and the physiology of its eyes, but how its brain processes and forms images and resolves colours remain completely unknown. That said, we do know that the salmon employs a smaller proportion of its brain volume on image processing than we do (smell processing occupies the biggest single slice at close to 30%).

    In any event it is essential not to make assumptions about what salmon can see in water - a less than ideal visual medium - on the basis of our own optical performance in air, which by any reckoning is quite outstanding.
    Last edited by MCXFisher; 02-10-2018 at 09:51 PM.

  7. #27

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    On more than one occasion when spinning for mackerel and bass in an estuary in clear water conditions I've witnessed salmon actually jump over a 0.2mm diameter 6lb clear mono line fished just below the surface to avoid swimming into it, so worrying over the colour of a fly line which must look like a mooring rope in comparison is absolutely pointless.
    Last edited by Seatoner; 02-10-2018 at 06:44 PM.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    339

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    I don't know what to think any more!
    Pedro.[/QUOTE]


    Well Pedro, you know now! In most cases they can't see it.

    If the head isn't within the 45 degree vision cone around and above the fish the only visible element will be the leader. Further away the main line will just me a narrow grey streak on the reflective under-surface of the water with one side lighter than the other depending on the angle of the sun.

    If you put the head directly over the top of a fish what it sees is generally grey or black, depending on the light level.[/QUOTE]

    "In most cases they can't see it " ?

    Check this video out ,although it only shows you a short clip of a cast , most of the fish bolting !
    Water clarity to rival Evian, the Bonaventure is an exceptional salmon river | Reports | Where Wise Men Fish

  9. #29

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    WRT the Bonaventure clip.

    If you drop a line right on the Salmonís head in a couple of feet of the most crystal clear water you will ever see; the fish probably are going to see it. If they donít see the line theyíll definitely feel it landing on the water. Are they bothered if the line is green or yellow? Iím guessing not.

    I donít think that the Bonaventure is reflective of most fishing in this country.
    Last edited by Grassy_Knollington; 10-10-2018 at 06:04 PM.

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