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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    East Lothian
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    4,335

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    Quote Originally Posted by bankwheel View Post
    I'm a bit fussy when it comes to colours, don't like bright colours like Gaelforce green or rio tracker orange but I don't think it makes any difference to the fish as MXC says. I also don't fish any integrated lines now preferring shooting heads for ease of change and the fact that I have less reels now.
    I do like the shorter length and lightness of my SL heads, would be good if more companies followed this rather than the standard length of 37 to 39'. Also longer heads could be handy at times, maybe around 42 to 44', only a few companies do this. I would like to see a decent multi tip line, there is still not a good one on the market yet, they are all a bit clunky, I think they should reduce the tip length as the density increases instead of sticking to standard 10 or15' lengths.
    Generally lines are better than they have ever been with loads of choice to satisfy everyone.
    I've just made a change for big rivers/bad conditions (or when I want very wide sink rate flexibility without spool changes so a spey line is out)

    By bad conditions I mean wind (like last weeK) Under those circumstances I used to use an AFS tracker which as you know is a multi tip. I never thought it cast very nicely (seems to come down heavily even with the inter tip) and on bottom Tweed you're often going for distance so the 39' length isn't ideal either, the third thing is it's fluro orange!

    I bought a Gaelforce EEMT (I think it's called) which I used last week - about 48' (so a bit less messing around with running line loops in a gale) and uses 15' multi tips. That's still a manageable length in wind whilst deep wading and it definitely seems to come down a lot nicer. If they made it integrated it would be even better (why a head only when it's multi tip?? - doesn't make sense) I think that line plus say a 60' spey multi tip (does anyone know who does one) would just about do me now on big waters.

    Coming from the Tracker the Gaelforce green is a relief even if it is a tad bright. Happy to report that both caught fish (with a multi tip I'm pretty certain colour doesn't matter anyway since the body is so far from the fly, but by god that Rio fluro colour is an absolute eyesore)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    3,847

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    Quote Originally Posted by goosander View Post
    Would have thought that the fly line should be out of the fish sight full stop.
    Bob.
    A double like for this one.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    339

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    I don't know what to think any more!
    Pedro.[/QUOTE]


    Well Pedro, you know now! In most cases they can't see it.

    If the head isn't within the 45 degree vision cone around and above the fish the only visible element will be the leader. Further away the main line will just me a narrow grey streak on the reflective under-surface of the water with one side lighter than the other depending on the angle of the sun.

    If you put the head directly over the top of a fish what it sees is generally grey or black, depending on the light level.[/QUOTE]
    --------------------------------
    MCX
    Interesting what you have said in your posts on lines ,

    "Well Pedro, you know now! In most cases they can't see it." ??

    "If you put the head directly over the top of a fish what it sees is generally grey or black, depending on the light level." ??

    Can't see it ? What it sees ? Mark my word fish can see it ! any fly line that passes over them , maybe it don't scare or alarm them as the line is moving over them i a slow drift ,

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    If the head isn't within the 45 degree vision cone around and above the fish the only visible element will be the leader. Further away the main line will just me a narrow grey streak on the reflective under-surface of the water with one side lighter than the other depending on the angle of the sun.
    Michael, I have to disagree with this. In their book "The Trout and the Fly", John Goddard and Brian Clarke show photographs of fly lines taken from underwater. As you say, in what they term the "window", i.e. the 45 degree cone above the fish, all lines look dark. However, in the "mirror" outside that area, where the lines are seen against a reflection of the river bed, not all lines look grey, and a pale green line is considerably more visible than a dark green or brown line. In the accompanying text, they say "...it is not the line in the air or the window that should be considered, but the line on the water in the mirror....There can be little doubt, as a consequence of our experiments and photographs...that white or light-coloured lines should not be used when the trout are close to the surface".

    There is also anecdotal evidence that reinforces the view that colour matters. As has been mentioned, I understand that New Zealand guides consider bright lines to be an absolute no-no. And I recall reading a report of a world river fishing competition some years ago, held (I think) in Spain. One of the British competitors described how they were significantly outfished by another team, all of whom were using grey lines. The Brits either got hold of some grey lines or dyed their existing ones, and saw a marked upturn in their catches.

    A friend of mine, who had over 2000 salmon to his own rod and of which all but a couple of handfuls have come from the same few miles of the lower Wye, is absolutely convinced that a dark line makes a really significant difference to catches in low water. He dyes his lines dark green or brown. And with a level of experience like that, I cannot help respecting his opinion!

    You might argue that the Wye is something of a special case, in that it has a lot of very flat, gliding water, where the potential for disturbance is much greater. You might also point out that Goddard and Clarke's research was carried out on chalk streams, where the water is typically much clearer than in a typical salmon river. And in the bit I quoted from them, they do only say that pale lines shouldn't be used when the trout are near the surface.

    Nevertheless, Robert Pashley, perhaps the greatest Wye fisherman ever, pointed out that fishers who exercise stealth and guile in the pursuit of trout, are all too often guilty of abandoning that when it comes to salmon fishing. And as I see it, there is rarely anything to be gained from using brightly coloured lines, and at times there may be something to be lost.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    North Yorks
    Posts
    4,049

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    Charlie,

    I think it is essential to differentiate between the light conditions prevailing in a very shallow chalk trout stream with crystalline water in the height of summer and those in a deeper, darker salmon river at higher latitude.. The levels of underwater light are entirely different. Moreover, the sensitivity of trout, which stay in pretty much the same place for years on end, to all manner of stimulants is several orders of magnitude greater than that of a salmon.

    Fishing for trout on a limestone river in Yorkshire I have a bright yellow line on one rod and a grey line on the other. Of course I never put the line in the window above the fish, because that's rarely more than 2' 6" wide and often as little as 12", but I've never noticed any difference in success rate with the 2 rods over the past 40 years on the Rye.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Cirencester
    Posts
    3,145

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    Quote Originally Posted by phil.b View Post
    The new LTS multi tip is a great line bankwheel
    Which one is this phil.b, I can't find anything online for an 'LTS multi tip'.

    I used a RIO SSVT last week, and agree it's a little clunky (especially the large join between head and tip when playing a lively fish!), and the inter tip has already failed at the join so not impressed.

    Oscar.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    491

  8. #18

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    Tom Bell with his Sunray products has done a load of stuff regarding lines that supposedly fish cannot see from below. I was given a couple of trout lines to try out and find them a really decent fly line. As regards fish seeing or not seeing them I cannot offer conclusive evidence. They did not catch any more fish for me than the lines that I normally use.
    It's all very well using WW2 analogies when referring to Brexit - 'spirit of the blitz' and all that. Imagine the curious atmosphere though if you were sitting in your air raid shelter looking around and realising that half of the people around you had voted to get bombed

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    PERTHSHIRE
    Posts
    906

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Which one is this phil.b, I can't find anything online for an 'LTS multi tip'.

    I used a RIO SSVT last week, and agree it's a little clunky (especially the large join between head and tip when playing a lively fish!), and the inter tip has already failed at the join so not impressed.

    Oscar.
    Its the new line that Trond Syrstad has designed Oscar its called the SCS line it's not a bad bit of kit.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Ross on Wye
    Posts
    762

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    (why a head only when it's multi tip?? - doesn't make sense) I think that line plus say a 60' spey multi tip (does anyone know who does one) would just about do me now on big waters.
    The Rio Short Head Spey is an integrated multi tip line but is sold with the floating tip only although this would be an advantage for you as you could use those from your Tracker. In the 9/10 and 10/11 versions the head measures 48ft and 50ft respectively.

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