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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan Rocks View Post
    ...Thinking about FEBs I wonder if the demise of the eel is not an issue. Once watched a cormorant eat more than 20 eels in 30 mins off Ballycastle river Margy. I guess eels are off the menu now leaving salmonids the only item left up river tops!
    Fascinating things eels. Unlike salmon you can't chap them to hell and gone and still have them return in abundance. A couple of alternatives that spring to mind:

    1. Eels have been migrating across to the Sargasso area for millions of years+++. Every year it gets further away and oceanic currents change (because of spreading and bulging along the N Atlantic mid-oceanic ridge due to plate tectonics.) So their migration distances are getting further and further year on year (admittedly only ca. 0.02mpa or 20km/ma, each way!) and hence the migration has become more difficult than it was a million or more years ago and it's getting worse...

    2. Eels are said to have one of the most amazing senses of smell in the world, able to detect some scents on molecular level. Given the recent (last 30 or 40 years) superabundance of artificial smells and smelly sychems known to be endocrine etc. disruptors, it could be enough just for the gradual inexorable increase (in parts per billion) of said synchems in our watercourses to do the job. (and the EA would never even know...)

    You heard it here first, FWIW...

    My money's on 2
    Last edited by seeking; 18-05-2018 at 03:42 PM.
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


    Fed up of debating C&R - see Hidden Content

    Unless otherwise stated, data used in any graph/figure/table are Crown copyright, used with the permission of MSS and/or EA and/or ICES. MSS / EA / ICES are not responsible for interpretation of these data by third parties

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan Rocks View Post
    25 x 100 = 2500 so it is still wrong. Not all the FEB diet is salmon parr or smolts. The majority will be trout. Same for Dolphins or porpoises out at sea, not all is salmon (in fact mostly not year round)! Otherwise they would starve in the spring (but they do eat salmon). It depends on your river. On the Forth it is seals big time. They now live in the lower river. As they are no longer shot they then follow the fish further up. A seal in the Forth will be eating adult salmon and sea trout, not dace.

    Thinking about FEBs I wonder if the demise of the eel is not an issue. Once watched a cormorant eat more than 20 eels in 30 mins off Ballycastle river Margy. I guess eels are off the menu now leaving salmonids the only item left up river tops!
    Your right in the 2500 Aidan, however your point re trout probably takes it down to the 2000 anyway.
    Theres far more seatrout and salmon par and smolts in the rivers round me than trout, except for probably the Don.

    The lack of eels will certainly be a big factor in par and smolts being predated.

    Cheers

    Mows

  3. #113

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    Only pointing out the maths (I agree) FEBs are clearly an issue and our smolts are disappearing somewhere. The eel population has crashed in recent years due to a parasite brought in from Asia in live eels (for food). Again man strikes again.
    Hardly seen an eel in years, not surprising as I do not bait fish. Was collecting condoms off the Rocks after a flood last summer. Found a bouncing Betty. Almost screamed like a girl (sorry girls) when the line attached shot off with a half pound eel attached. Eel returned safely and my pride was intact as I was on my own. Funny thing was it was several weeks after the worm season had finished. Perhaps they were only fishing for eels or trout, except the hook was to big for it to swallow it completely.

  4. #114

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    A more interesting fact about eels is that there is no evidence the European eel adults make it back to north america to breed. We have traced the elvers to Europe but not one adult going back the other way, and they have looked. We assume that they must but that is it, we assume. Really we know very little but try and manage what we do not fully understand.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking View Post
    Fascinating things eels. Unlike salmon you can't chap them to hell and gone and still have them return in abundance. A couple of alternatives that spring to mind:

    1. Eels have been migrating across to the Sargasso area for millions of years+++. Every year it gets further away and oceanic currents change (because of spreading and bulging along the N Atlantic mid-oceanic ridge due to plate tectonics.) So their migration distances are getting further and further year on year (admittedly only ca. 0.02mpa or 20km/ma, each way!) and hence the migration has become more difficult than it was a million or more years ago and it's getting worse...

    2. Eels are said to have one of the most amazing senses of smell in the world, able to detect some scents on molecular level. Given the recent (last 30 or 40 years) superabundance of artificial smells and smelly sychems known to be endocrine etc. disruptors, it could be enough just for the gradual inexorable increase (in parts per billion) of said synchems in our watercourses to do the job. (and the EA would never even know...)

    You heard it here first, FWIW...

    My money's on 2
    Yo C

    Hope your well mate

    What a fascinating post on eels, having studied Geology at college and understanding the constructive plate margins at the mid Atlantic ridge I'd never thought of the widening plates to affect fish migrations but you may have a point over the course of millennia.

    Neither had I considered sudden changes at a molecular smell level as affecting fish migration but considering the micro plastic and other ollution over the last few decades it may well be a point.

    Food for thought.... good post!
    "If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists"

    MSP 1999- "If you tolerate this then your children will be next"

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Andrews View Post
    Yo C

    Hope your well mate

    What a fascinating post on eels, having studied Geology at college and understanding the constructive plate margins at the mid Atlantic ridge I'd never thought of the widening plates to affect fish migrations but you may have a point over the course of millennia.

    Neither had I considered sudden changes at a molecular smell level as affecting fish migration but considering the micro plastic and other ollution over the last few decades it may well be a point.

    Food for thought.... good post!
    Yo ‘t’other C.

    All well thanks*. Glad you’re still around – I toasted your health with a pint of “Taddy” (Sam Smiths finest), t’other week.

    Then I cracked open a “Black Sheep”

    Yes, fascinating things eels, lots not to understand. Complex migration eventually comes unstuck.

    Aye these synchems are an issue. I left a bar of soap on a grimy shower floor for a week when away once, and came back to find the "shadow" of it: it had killed all the algae around it and continued to act as a dead patch, with no algae growing back there for months! If that's what one bar of modern soap does to wastewater destined for our rivers, then multiply by the millions in the catchments. I'm sure Imperial Leather was much better back in the good old days when the salmon were all pulling your arms off...

    There was a good ppt by Russel at al 2011? that looked at return rates of smolts exposed to a sweetcorn herbicide, posted this before
    Russel 2011.png

    http://www.nasco.int/sas/pdf/archive/salmonsummit2011/Summit%20Presentations/Ian%20Russell.pdf



    *OK as well as can be expected given that my mental health is "At Risk" of being sent into a tailspin… Mind, I guess I’ll just have to focus on Yorkshire instead
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


    Fed up of debating C&R - see Hidden Content

    Unless otherwise stated, data used in any graph/figure/table are Crown copyright, used with the permission of MSS and/or EA and/or ICES. MSS / EA / ICES are not responsible for interpretation of these data by third parties

  7. #117

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    [QUOTE=seeking;1068292]Yo ‘t’other C.

    All well thanks*. Glad you’re still around – I toasted your health with a pint of “Taddy” (Sam Smiths finest), t’other week.

    Then I cracked open a “Black Sheep”

    Yes, fascinating things eels, lots not to understand. Complex migration eventually comes unstuck.

    Aye these synchems are an issue. I left a bar of soap on a grimy shower floor for a week when away once, and came back to find the "shadow" of it: it had killed all the algae around it and continued to act as a dead patch, with no algae growing back there for months! If that's what one bar of modern soap does to wastewater destined for our rivers, then multiply by the millions in the catchments. I'm sure Imperial Leather was much better back in the good old days when the salmon were all pulling your arms off...
    ..............
    I am no scientist but i am sure that if you put a bar of chocolate in your shower you would get the same result as algae needs sunlight to grow so try dairy milk rather than dove and see what the results are.
    Last edited by SOS; 21-05-2018 at 09:50 PM.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilkinson View Post
    I've seen some of the best non-migratory trout fishing in tributaries of the Jokenga River in the northern Kola that I could even imagine. Loons in the lochans - wonderful. 4 massive Northern Pike in one back eddy with thousands of fry swimming their past noses continually.. Masses of Atlantic salmon, large and small in the river.

    The main difference I spot between up there and the northern UK is there no folk living there; except in a few broken down fishing ports at the river mouths. But here we have those who continually moan on about a few birds and troots rather the the real issues.

    Have you guys thought that if you try to solve an issue which is not the main problem then you are ignoring the real problem. Maybe the fish are moving north with global warming as are their prey fish. You'll be able fish in more than the one river in Greenland soon.

    Cheers Dave
    Dave, thats a pig ignorant post.

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