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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    North west London
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    59

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    'ps does the Humber drain a 3rd of england or is that a urban myth?'
    Depends on whether it's the Yorkshire Ouse or the Great Ouse. I fished the Ivel yesterday (a Gt Ouse tributary) around 5 miles from the confluence and that's a 35 mile journey from north London, so it has a huge catchment area.

  2. #12

    Default Well spotted mate

    I can see you've a good heart. Take something for the spots though.

    When I was a youth on Tyneside jamming myself in between snigglers on the lower Coquet, they were loads of famous game-anglers from Yorks writing in T & S. Expert at the winter grayling: Reg Rhyginni, Dermot Wilson, that posh bloke: Arthur Leftbridgetowrag. and so on.

    Used to read the stories in T & S. TTFN Dave





    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    Don't worry Dave, I'll not rise too briskly to your fly! The Ure won't match the Tyne in my lifetime, but in the longer term it has the potential to far exceed it on the simple basis of larger spawning area. If you go back to the 1920s, the grandfather of the present Lord Bolton took over 100 Ure salmon to his own rod in a single season, which shows what might be possible with good headwater management.

    It's Bolton Abbey on the Wharfe; Bolton Castle is on the Ure. There are plenty of salmon that run the Wharfe: in 2016 the numbers going up Otley weir at Pool bridge attracted dozens of people filming them with their iPhones. The best segment of video showed more than 20 going up in about a minute.

    All over the Ouse basin there are dams and weirs on the tributaries dating from the 19th and early 20th century that are obstacles to salmon migration. These are gradually being removed or passed with almost immediate effects. The removal of a weir from a Ure tributary below Masham in 2016 was followed by the appearance of 20+ redds upstream the following winter. There are hundreds of miles of tributaries suitable for spawning on the Ure, Swale and Wharfe that can be opened up with relatively minor works.

    The 'increased rents' bogey is one of the oldest worn-out chestnuts around, wholly lacking any substance in fact or economics, yet I hear it repeated frequently. The activities are not mutually exclusive - in 8 seasons on the Ure on a section shared with Bradford No2 I have encountered only one trout fisherman - and riparian owners are not so stupid as to price loyal trout and coarse fishermen off the water because they need a steady income. In any event, the conditions that best suit salmon on the upper Ure, in August - October with the water running at +12-30", are frankly pretty abysmal for trout fishing.

    Personally I'm just enjoying watching the recovery of a river that my grandfather fished before World War 1, and catching respectable numbers of salmon the while.
    Last edited by Dave Wilkinson; 14-03-2018 at 05:00 PM.

  3. #13

    Default Sounds like

    Sounds like a PARR for the coarse !! Boom Boom


    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    Better ask the dentist who recently caught 37 salmon there in a single season

  4. #14

    Default Contradiction

    I'm frightened to contradict you after the *******ing I got from the Yorks expert on Till sea-trout who nearly got me struck off !! . But thank you guys for all your wonderful support. The Facists would suppress free speech.

    If what you say is true then that trib must have to cross loads of watersheds like the Nene etc. Doesn't the Great Ouse flow through East Anglia directly into the North Sea ?



    Quote Originally Posted by Isisalar View Post
    'ps does the Humber drain a 3rd of england or is that a urban myth?'
    Depends on whether it's the Yorkshire Ouse or the Great Ouse. I fished the Ivel yesterday (a Gt Ouse tributary) around 5 miles from the confluence and that's a 35 mile journey from north London, so it has a huge catchment area.

  5. #15

    Default

    lets all hope it does - it will take the pressure off the tyne and wear and west coast rivers, not to mention the border rivers.

    a system that big full of salmon would likely lower fishing rents across the country.

    I follow the ure group on facebook (I've never fished there nor likely to) and its a great story and they do good work at the hatchery and the plantings etc.

    it may come back - the Thames once had a Salmon run, and double digit brown trout.

  6. #16

    Default Thanks

    Thanks for the correction, I did just remember though.

    That is such great news to hear about the upper Wharfe. There looked to be some nice runs up at Bolton Abbey and a nice place to fish too..

    Are there lots of reservoirs up that way which would shave the peak off the floods ? When I lived at Wetherby the river always look on the low side and also on the odd trips up to Bolton Abbey.


    When do the salmon start arriving up there, do you know please, say in a year with wet spring ? Cheers


    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    It's Bolton Abbey on the Wharfe; Bolton Castle is on the Ure. There are plenty of salmon that run the Wharfe: in 2016 the numbers going up Otley weir at Pool bridge attracted dozens of people filming them with their iPhones. The best segment of video showed more than 20 going up in about a minute.

    .
    Last edited by Dave Wilkinson; 14-03-2018 at 05:45 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    North Yorks
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    3,270

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassy_Knollington View Post
    I know, it's a matter of time Michael, with catches like that, there needs to be a couple of nice huts, a proper car park and some Ghillies Unfortunately the Naburn stretch is only about 500 metres single bank.

    On another point, we know that good numbers of spring fish are caught at Naburn from the opening in April and before by 'Pike' fishermen. I've heard about catches at Linton and Wetherby then the odd fish is taken further up in the Ure by May time. Yes, there's plenty of spinning for silver pike that goes on, including one 27 pounder taken out of season that got a photo in the York Press about 5 years ago. Places like Linton Lock are favoured for spinning and people do catch springers there. There's also a short stretch of fly water slightly further up that has yielded the odd springer. The main stretches of good fly water start at Tanfield.

    However, I think it's fair to say that the prime months in the best -known fishing sections have been Sept & October and the video from Otley was November and it's not actually that far from the tide - 35 miles or so maybe of the 65 miles length of the river. This is pretty late in the season, much like the films of the River Dove. There's nothing strange about this; peak catch times have been the same all over the country until recent years.

    The running and arrival time of fish in the upper reaches above Ripon depends critically on rain and water. We had a succession of dry springs 2012-17 that limited the main extent of the spring run to below Masham. In wetter years there seems to be a steady flow from March onwards with periodic peaks determined by flows. On the Bolton Castle stretch, which is about 110 miles from the Humber Bridge as the river flows, I have seen fish arriving as early as the first week of April, often very large. A couple of years ago while taking the cobwebs out of my casting in April in preparation for going up to the Tweed, a 4 foot silver Polaris submarine surfaced beside me. In 2011 with good water I had the first springer in late May and more silver fish in August-September, amidst all other shades down the spectrum of grey, green, tan, copper and brown. Of course by the back end the brown fish are in the majority, but in 2011 & 12 we had a few shiny new arrivals and a good ration of grey fish through until the end of September.

    Given that a lot of these fish (but not all of them) are already past their best by the time they get caught; do you think that the various barriers hold up their migration at all, or are they just sitting in a nice quiet deep spot, waiting for the right time like they would on other rivers?
    There are all manner of obstacles that are only insuperable when the water is very low, but probably stiff enough to discourage energy wasting behaviours. As you say, I think there's a lot of snoozing in quiet corners until the flow gets big enough to prompt movement. In any event the Ouse and Ure don't present any significant challenge to the salmon's energy and power: for a fish that's moving confidently with other fish ahead of it, Goole to Masham is probably only 3 nights' easy work. As you get into August the numbers can really start to mount in the upper reaches as successive waves prompted by spates stack up and agitate each other. There's nothing like a bit of friction for improving the chances of a take.

  8. #18
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    Mar 2013
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    North Yorks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilkinson View Post
    Thanks for the correction, I did just remember though.

    That is such great news to hear about the upper Wharfe. There looked to be some nice runs up at Bolton Abbey and a nice place to fish too..

    Are there lots of reservoirs up that way which would shave the peak off the floods ? When I lived at Wetherby the river always look on the low side and also on the odd trips up to Bolton Abbey.


    When do the salmon start arriving up there, do you know please, say in a year with wet spring ? Cheers
    I haven't yet fished the Wharfe for salmon but I'm looking forward to doing so. There will be others on the Forum who have good local knowledge.

    On average we do get dry summers (July can be the exception) and 2012-17 we had very dry springs. I'm not aware of any reservoirs on the Wharfe (not like the Nidd) but it's worth remembering how much water is abstracted from all the Dales rivers to supply Leeds, which would be very obvious in dry periods.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    North Yorkshire
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    3,038

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    I haven't yet fished the Wharfe for salmon but I'm looking forward to doing so. There will be others on the Forum who have good local knowledge.

    On average we do get dry summers (July can be the exception) and 2012-17 we had very dry springs. I'm not aware of any reservoirs on the Wharfe (not like the Nidd) but it's worth remembering how much water is abstracted from all the Dales rivers to supply Leeds, which would be very obvious in dry periods.
    The four Washburn valley reservoirs all ultimately discharge into the Wharfe at Pool and the largest reservoir in Yorkshire, Grimwith, discharges into the wharfe between Burnsall and Appletreewick. It's water is then drawn off at Lob Wood between Bolton Abbey and Addingham. There are other smaller ones. The total effect of these is probably to smooth out flood levels below Pool and the compensation from The bottom Washburn reservoir will help slightly with low flows. It's only above Burnsall that the Wharfe has a natural flow regime. It would without doubt be the jewel in the crown of Yorkshire rivers when all the obstacles are overcome. It has fly pools to die for all the way up from Pool.

    SP8

  10. #20
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Stockton on Tees
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    1,894

    Default spawning grounds

    [QUOTE=MCXFisher;1052776]Don't worry Dave, I'll not rise too briskly to your fly! The Ure won't match the Tyne in my lifetime, but in the longer term it has the potential to far exceed it on the simple basis of larger spawning area. If you go back to the 1920s, the grandfather of the present Lord Bolton took over 100 Ure salmon to his own rod in a single season, which shows what might be possible with good headwater management.

    It's Bolton Abbey on the Wharfe; Bolton Castle is on the Ure. There are plenty of salmon that run the Wharfe: in 2016 the numbers going up Otley weir at Pool bridge attracted dozens of people filming them with their iPhones. The best segment of video showed more than 20 going up in about a minute.

    All over the Ouse basin there are dams and weirs on the tributaries dating from the 19th and early 20th century that are obstacles to salmon migration. These are gradually being removed or passed with almost immediate effects. The removal of a weir from a Ure tributary below Masham in 2016 was followed by the appearance of 20+ redds upstream the following winter. There are hundreds of miles of tributaries suitable for spawning on the Ure, Swale and Wharfe that can be opened up with relatively minor works.


    So in your opinion and sightings yer say that the ure has more spawning area,the Tynes spawing area isn't what one might call small,main tyne,south and north,east and west allen,devils water and all the ribs that are at the top of the A689 in the upper south tyne area and the fish spawn in the main wide river near lambley castle.


    But in general i agree with what you say about the ure alone not matching in your lifetime,but i think you said earlier that the humber catchment is very large,so each individual river counts as one yes but the system meaning the humber system is now beating the Tyne system as a whole,the fish that must be passing through the humber on their ways to the trent and ouse must be well over 100k fish that's 50-50 between trent and ouse.Still i think a low end estimate.
    Last edited by Taddy; 15-03-2018 at 08:28 PM.

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