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  1. #21
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    Dec 2007
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    Enjoyable viewing directed for the masses rather than aficionados - the loch fishing looked more akin to reservoir rainbow trout fishing with all the stripping going on, not a dibble in sight.

  2. #22
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    Nov 2007
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    Near Kelso, Roxburghshire
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    Well Roag Fisher...no more than I have come to expect from you.


    The Alba programme was tilted so much in favour of Scottish Government's and the salmon aquaculture industry's favour that you would be excused for believing that their PR people had vetted and amended the script.

    The continual inference to oceanic problems and only passing reference to costal problems shows that they were consciously attempting to create a shift in public perception of the state of affairs which actually exist.

    As for your reference to change from grilse to salmon runs, on other systems this has been historically so with almost predictable times of change from one to the other. However the Western Islands have not had such easily identified regular change over periods with the associated bad 'sags' in runs.

    That the average size of West Coast and Island fish has dropped considerably does not mean that these smaller fish are grilse...look at some of these 3 to 4 lb fish...where is the forked tail? Has any credible local genetic research been done on these new style mini-salmon? As the observable facts appear to be parallel to the results of Danish studies - and whilst a better explanation is lacking - I can only believe that they are evidence of cross breeding of wild fish with escaped farm stock.

    There is plenty of evidence of oceanic problems for emigrating smolts. But if these smolts are already compromised by hybridisation and lice problems they are increasingly unlikely to reach their feeding grounds. That is, for me, the main argument against aquaculture of salmon as currently practiced.

  3. #23

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    [QUOTE=castor;1033212]
    That the average size of West Coast and Island fish has dropped considerably does not mean that these smaller fish are grilse...look at some of these 3 to 4 lb fish...where is the forked tail? Has any credible local genetic research been done on these new style mini-salmon? As the observable facts appear to be parallel to the results of Danish studies - and whilst a better explanation is lacking - I can only believe that they are evidence of cross breeding of wild fish with escaped farm stock.

    Castor, the main reason for smaller salmon in most west coast and island systems is genetic. As in the big Norway rivers which genetically need very large salmon to negotiate rapids and falls with very powerful flows the opposite applies. Salmon have to negotiate more loch and small stream environments to spawn and their smaller size makes them more fit for this purpose. The Lochy is a notable exception as it is one of the few west coast rivers with heavy flows and tends to produce bigger salmon that are more fit for that environment.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Culrain. Sutherland
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    2,429

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    I quite enjoyed it, I also happened to mention this on a friends facebook page and ended up chatting to Neen (turns out she is actually just up the road from me and the kettles on) which was nice

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wee-Eck View Post
    Download the BBC i Player app for mobiles or tablets.

    BBC iPlayer - App Downloads
    Does this the App work overseas? Even if it doesnít, I guess you can download when I the UK and watch later using the app.

    The BBC are getting very proficient at blocking VPN access to iPlayer via the web portal. Iíve gone through 2 services in the last 4 months. Itís galling as I still pay my license.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    HUDDERSFIELD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grassy_Knollington View Post
    Does this the App work overseas? Even if it doesnít, I guess you can download when I the UK and watch later using the app.

    The BBC are getting very proficient at blocking VPN access to iPlayer via the web portal. Iíve gone through 2 services in the last 4 months. Itís galling as I still pay my license.
    I am pretty sure it will only work in the UK.
    I think I tried to watch stuff in Italy last year and it wouldn't work.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Isle of Lewis
    Posts
    1,335

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    Quote Originally Posted by castor View Post
    Well Roag Fisher...no more than I have come to expect from you.


    The Alba programme was tilted so much in favour of Scottish Government's and the salmon aquaculture industry's favour that you would be excused for believing that their PR people had vetted and amended the script.

    The continual inference to oceanic problems and only passing reference to costal problems shows that they were consciously attempting to create a shift in public perception of the state of affairs which actually exist.

    As for your reference to change from grilse to salmon runs, on other systems this has been historically so with almost predictable times of change from one to the other. However the Western Islands have not had such easily identified regular change over periods with the associated bad 'sags' in runs.

    That the average size of West Coast and Island fish has dropped considerably does not mean that these smaller fish are grilse...look at some of these 3 to 4 lb fish...where is the forked tail? Has any credible local genetic research been done on these new style mini-salmon? As the observable facts appear to be parallel to the results of Danish studies - and whilst a better explanation is lacking - I can only believe that they are evidence of cross breeding of wild fish with escaped farm stock.

    There is plenty of evidence of oceanic problems for emigrating smolts. But if these smolts are already compromised by hybridisation and lice problems they are increasingly unlikely to reach their feeding grounds. That is, for me, the main argument against aquaculture of salmon as currently practiced.
    There certainly was some inbreeding of Lewis fish with farmed fish. I will see if I can find the relevant paper, but it may have vanished the same as the rest of the Fasmop stuff. If you believe in the fitness theory, it is probable that genetic strain has now died out. If it has not, then it is not a problem!
    I can assure you that the runt salmon on Lewis have the same kind of tails as the runt salmon that are getting caught on Tweed, Don, Dee, etc!
    I had 3 or 4 last year less than 2.5 lbs in weight. Just wee 2+1 fish.
    Purely by chance, I was in the company today of an island keeper who has worked on three island estates over the last 27 years. He has seen 5 farmed fish caught in that time. Says it all really.....

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Isle of Lewis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occasional salmon fisher View Post
    Always interesting to hear from someone actually "on the ground" at the location itself.

    Couple of questions :-

    Do you think the number of salmon and seatrout in your area has decreased a lot in recent years ?

    If so, what are the main reasons ?

    Genuine questions as I find the situations in different parts of Scotland quite confusing at the moment. Some fisheries (particularly west coast) appear to have far smaller runs in comparison to "the past" whilst North Coast rivers (particularly Thurso and Naver) seem to be getting amazing runs.
    Seeking produced a graph that showed almost all the Hebrides had seen increased catches! But that was using statistics...
    Some systems are better, some worse (a LOT worse). Some have come back from the dead in sea lochs with proven aquaculture problems.
    Locals with an interest in fisheries have a good idea why different systems perform as they do. Aquaculture is part of the equation, but there are other factors. Omerta rules on such matters.
    I have almost finished a redd count on the Creed system , and so far I am pleasantly surprised at what I have found. Catches last year were dire, but the redd count indicates stocks are healthy.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Aberdeen
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    5,774

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    Just watched it on iplayer and also quite enjoyed it.
    ..........so many flies, so little time!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Yorkshire (were there a god it'd be god's own country)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roag Fisher View Post
    Seeking produced a graph that showed almost all the Hebrides had seen increased catches! But that was using statistics...
    Some systems are better, some worse (a LOT worse). Some have come back from the dead in sea lochs with proven aquaculture problems.
    Locals with an interest in fisheries have a good idea why different systems perform as they do. Aquaculture is part of the equation, but there are other factors. Omerta rules on such matters.
    I have almost finished a redd count on the Creed system , and so far I am pleasantly surprised at what I have found. Catches last year were dire, but the redd count indicates stocks are healthy.
    Steady, Mr Seedless will be on your coat tails, someone will accuse me of an own goal then there'll be a law suit ....

    Categorically No I didnt

    I think you refer to a map, which colour coded catchments and is available here:

    Comparison 1994-2016.jpg

    From this thread:
    Status of GB Salmon Rod Catches in 2016

    And I was at pains to point out that if the period was extended back another decade or two the W Coast would be a swath of red. In reality because the already-degraded-by-aquaculture catchments were in a state of recovery, bolstered perhaps by an increase in Slice-modified genetic pollutants (i.e. farmers) swelling the catch components...

    The longer time frame looks like this:

    10ya Scots District Comparison.jpg
    Scottish Salmon Rod Catch Performance Over The Last 40 Years

    Which the Seedless One cannot dodge...


    PS - haven't seen the programme but it's been recorded so may comment anon...
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


    Fed up of debating C&R - see Hidden Content

    Unless otherwise stated, data used in any graph/figure/table are Crown copyright, used with the permission of MSS and/or EA and/or ICES. MSS / EA / ICES are not responsible for interpretation of these data by third parties

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