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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundmixer View Post
    GeeBee, loving your work. I would fish those all year and I bet they look fantastic in the water.

    Euan

    I can't claim those two - they are by Greg Senyo himself.

    interestingly, he used a soft hackle in that tye, which opens a whole area I didn't think of for small single stage intruders - namely, using pheasant, starling, partridge and woodcock feathers in a composite loop.

  2. #82

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    A thought as to hook positions. I'm told that when a salmon munches a vision 110 lure it grabs it by the middle and so ghillies, on the Tay in particular, rig a single treble in the middle of the lure, if that makes sense. I've seen some pictures of battered lures that clearly show a pattern on bite marks to confirm this. Would it not be more effective to fish the hook in the middle of a very long fly for the same reasons?

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    A thought as to hook positions. I'm told that when a salmon munches a vision 110 lure it grabs it by the middle and so ghillies, on the Tay in particular, rig a single treble in the middle of the lure, if that makes sense. I've seen some pictures of battered lures that clearly show a pattern on bite marks to confirm this. Would it not be more effective to fish the hook in the middle of a very long fly for the same reasons?
    I suppose it all depends on how you fish the fly or lure. Fishing the square across makes a hook in the middle perfect sense as fish will be grabbing it side on. Same as stripping a sunray I guess as the short body effectively puts the hook near the middle.

    For down and across, hook at the end probably better.
    Last edited by AlanT; 12-01-2018 at 06:01 PM. Reason: grammar

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Edzell Woods
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    A thought as to hook positions. I'm told that when a salmon munches a vision 110 lure it grabs it by the middle and so ghillies, on the Tay in particular, rig a single treble in the middle of the lure, if that makes sense. I've seen some pictures of battered lures that clearly show a pattern on bite marks to confirm this. Would it not be more effective to fish the hook in the middle of a very long fly for the same reasons?
    Exactly, like a Sunray hook is in the middle somewhere?
    Perfect!

    Euan
    Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
    RC Cone

  5. #85

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    That was my view but most of the bigger intruders I've seen have the hooks further back, like old school big tubes. I'm going to try and rig one like a 110, but with a single. I'll post photos if I get it done.

  6. #86
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    Jun 2015
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    Edzell Woods
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    I can't claim those two - they are by Greg Senyo himself.

    interestingly, he used a soft hackle in that tye, which opens a whole area I didn't think of for small single stage intruders - namely, using pheasant, starling, partridge and woodcock feathers in a composite loop.
    Interesting... and just a wee bit envious too
    Must have a wee play at the vice this weekend.

    I have always been interested in salmon / steelhead fly fishing history which has been extended way past Waddington, Falkus and Wood. We are in living memory of some truly great innovations which have been talked about in this thread and I am sure had the same results as the change from feather wings to hair, "traditional" to "modern traditional".
    Sunk silk to greased line to 40yd DT to Spey to Scandi to Skagit is a fair journey but every step has been a leap forward and flies are no different.
    Me? I love it all

    Greg Senyo flies? You lucky man! I would love a Jerry French or Ed Ward Intruder for my wall!

    Euan
    Living with deep, full breaths is the way of the trout. Fish, it seems, are the ultimate teachers in breathing.
    RC Cone

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    That was my view but most of the bigger intruders I've seen have the hooks further back, like old school big tubes. I'm going to try and rig one like a 110, but with a single. I'll post photos if I get it done.
    This reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago with some very experienced Towy sea trouters. I showed them some Sunray/Monkeyish things, not dissimilar in size to some of the big snake flies and waddingtons that they use. They said that my flies wouldn't work as well for their fish because sea trout tend to nip at the tails, and this is why their flies are usually designed with the hook set right at (or even beyond) the back end of the dressing.

    I have no experience of the steelhead or pacific salmon for which intruders were designed, but it may be that they too tend to be tail nippers, and that's why the flies tend to be rigged as they do. But as you say, this doesn't generally seem to be a problem with S. salar - at least in the conditions that might call for an intruder. So it seems to me that, while there may possibly be something to be learned from the tying style and the emphasis on mobility of the intruder, it could perhaps be incorporated into a conventional modern-style tube or hooked fly, with the business part set amidships.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieH View Post
    This reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago with some very experienced Towy sea trouters. I showed them some Sunray/Monkeyish things, not dissimilar in size to some of the big snake flies and waddingtons that they use. They said that my flies wouldn't work as well for their fish because sea trout tend to nip at the tails, and this is why their flies are usually designed with the hook set right at (or even beyond) the back end of the dressing.

    I have no experience of the steelhead or pacific salmon for which intruders were designed, but it may be that they too tend to be tail nippers, and that's why the flies tend to be rigged as they do. But as you say, this doesn't generally seem to be a problem with S. salar - at least in the conditions that might call for an intruder. So it seems to me that, while there may possibly be something to be learned from the tying style and the emphasis on mobility of the intruder, it could perhaps be incorporated into a conventional modern-style tube or hooked fly, with the business part set amidships.
    It's sea trout I had in mind to be honest. I occasionally use a big purple and black intruder called, sweetly, a werewolf for deep pools on dark nights. I've found West Country sea trout Not to be tail nippers but my sample size is probably small compared to some of the Welsh lads. I'd be fascinated to hear what Deanevans thinks, for example.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loxie View Post
    A thought as to hook positions. I'm told that when a salmon munches a vision 110 lure it grabs it by the middle and so ghillies, on the Tay in particular, rig a single treble in the middle of the lure, if that makes sense. I've seen some pictures of battered lures that clearly show a pattern on bite marks to confirm this. Would it not be more effective to fish the hook in the middle of a very long fly for the same reasons?
    that's an interesting question for stripped flies. I've never thought about that.

    for swung flies or 'hanging' flies it shouldn't make a difference - the Grilse I had was caught fair in the scissors.

    I think the current on the line often sets the hook into the scissors though, I've had many fish do an imitation of a rock and I've not 'struck', I just lifted the rod tip up to check and then felt the head shake and played the fish in

    I can't speak on the Sea Trout, but I'd imagine that if you are catching them hooked in the middle of the their mouth, then they nipped at the fly.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Midlothian
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    Interesting that from an elevated position about 5ft above the river I had a session last year we were able to watch fish taking my stripped fly. My friend was observing, I was fishing.

    I hooked and lost 2 grilse and hooked and landed 5 smaller sea trout. The grilse rose straight up through the water column and whacked the fly (a long teal blue silver type fly size 10) then dropped straight back down to the lie.

    The sea trout all ‘turned’ on the fly, only momentarily and very very fast, but just enough to be actually following the fly for that instance, so in effect, taking it from behind. I don’t know if this is typical but there was a certainly a difference in how they were taking the fly.

    Hooking grilse have always been my bogey on my local river, maybe this thread has solved my predicament, maybe I should be using a fly with a hook nearer the middle. . . Hmm

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