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  1. #1

    Default S&TA - Why C&R is a must

    I wonder if the S&TA think that the C&R percentages reported across Scotland are made up to look good (over inflated lets say), and that is one of the drivers for change?

    The Salmon & Trout Association

  2. #2

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    It's simple. He has to make things up to make his point, which shows how weak his argument is. I have never yet met an angler who wants to kill everything, and only a tiny number who want to put them all back. The vast majority want to keep a few as appropriate to stocks. Unfortunately for S&TA that does not back their agenda so they make up lies like this. What he has written is wilfully misleading and should be thoroughly questioned in the light of the evidence; either he is saying we must respond to a couple of bad years with draconian measures or he is lying about the rod catch data. Either way he should be ignored.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamekeeper View Post
    I wonder if the S&TA think that the C&R percentages reported across Scotland are made up to look good (over inflated lets say), and that is one of the drivers for change?

    The Salmon & Trout Association
    Interesting. That STA blog could be seen as yet more reactionary rubbish, but at least now I realise why he didn't reply to my email...(quoted below).

    I wonder how this gentleman explains the Tyne and Ribble etc. recoveries right through the period when just about every rod-caught fish was chapped (and marine survival estimates were descending to an all time low).

    And quite how the bumper period from 2004-2012 can be called the "worst runs of fish in living memory", when in actual fact they were the best. And supported by record numbers through Scotland's Monitored Salmon River. How does that tally? Here, on Planet Earth it doesn't appear to.

    As for any proof that anglers have an impact on runs at all, well of course, we couldn't be providing that anytime soon could we?

    Yes, I can see them lobbying for repeal of regs and lobbying against mandatory C&R just now or at sometime in the future, aye right

    Bizzarre.




    Quote Originally Posted by seeking
    FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE TRUSTEES



    Dear Salmon & Trout Association,



    It has come to my attention that in the recent submissions to the Scots Government outlined in the RACCE Review minutes, your Scottish representative Mr. Hugh Campbell Adamson apparently said: "I agree that in a perfect world, we should have no killing of any fish"... and ... "We are killing too many fish-everyone is killing too many fish."



    His presentation was supportive of efforts to impose mandatory catch and release (C&R) on rod anglers in Scotland.



    It is unfortunate that such emotive statements, unsupported by any scientific evidence whatsoever are being made on your behalf. Were your representative able to show any credible evidence of Great British salmon stocks being unable to support cropping (especially by rods); or that they are in any way shape or form "threatened"; or that mandatory C&R is even required or works to improve salmon stocks (none of which he can of course) perhaps he would be able to argue from a position of strength.



    As it is, he cannot, his assertions would appear to be false, and against the best interests of salmon anglers.



    As a concerned salmon angler who wishes to see the historical right to harvest rod-caught salmon responsibly in perpetuity, I would like to alert you to this matter.



    Over the years I have donated to the self-styled "salmon conservation sector" (a term popularised by Mr. Tony Andrews of the AST in his online commentaries) thinking them to be acting in my interests or at least not against them.



    Now however, with this sector allying itself more and more with the Aquaculture industries aims and objectives (close the very few nets remaining, stopping harvest of rod-caught salmon etc) and against the interests of anglers wishing to take a salmon for the pot, I am unable to donate or support them. Especially so when the only real threat to wild Atlantic salmon stocks in GB appears to be from farmed Atlantic salmon (and of course other changes to the catchments they occupy).



    I mention this for your information - should the S&TA take a different tack to that promoted by Mr Campbell Adamson, I would be keen to hear of it. Until then I can assure you will never receive any monies from me whilst your representatives hold these stated views.



    Sincerely yours





    Mr. Chris King
    Last edited by seeking; 19-03-2015 at 07:22 PM.
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


    Fed up of debating C&R - see Hidden Content

    Unless otherwise stated, data used in any graph/figure/table are Crown copyright, used with the permission of MSS and/or EA and/or ICES. MSS / EA / ICES are not responsible for interpretation of these data by third parties

  4. #4

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    Campbell adamson did not respond to me either!

  5. #5
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    Default

    It is a pity that the S.&T.A. could not put the same effort into finding out what is happening in the real world. The fish that reach the spawning redds have run a gauntlet of death from natural predators from the time they hatch to there return. Kingfishers/dippers/sea swallows [terns]/goosanders/cormorants/trout/minnows and one of the worst last years parr all enjoy the young ones. The estuary may have pollution/seals/nets to take a harvest. The sea as lots of fish that will take smolts. Could it be that the vast shoals of mackerel are having a field day. On return journey they have to face most of these threats again as well as finding the river is on its bones and they have to hang about waiting for water.
    BUT the worst threat is the fisherman with his magic wand who has depleted the stocks of fish to near extinction.
    GET REAL. Were it not for the fishers with there magic wands there would be possibly no fish left in rivers that were not much better than open sewers.
    Most fishers want to take the odd fish for the table but we all return fish nowadays.
    If you read the old fishing books there were plenty of seasons when no fish were caught.
    Bob [the seal]

  6. #6
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    Default

    Thanks for the link gamekeeper.
    Some good stuff there.
    Must join them.

  7. #7

    Default

    I've tried to find out more about the motives behind the S&TA position but they will not engage in any form of discussion. It seems the comment on the blog about being willing to engage in a debate was a lie as well! I think we can assume that they are using the two bad years we have had to try to raise more money/ prestige for the organisation.

    I cannot understand why they cannot be honest about the situation and try to get some credit for the fact that the 5yr average for the rod catch in Scotland is at an all time high, the 5 yr Logie counter nett upstream count average is at an all time high, the 5 yr average CPUE in England and Wales is at an all time high and the 5yr average CPUE for scottish fixed engines is also high. Instead of lauding these achievements they are trying to sell us an extinction scaremongering story instead.

    If you think 100% C&R is merited against the background above and the fact that voluntary C&r is 80% then support the S&TA, if not look elsewhere, because their support of the Thin reforms will lead to just that.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Indeed.

    A Devils Advocate may be forgiven for thinking that somewhere a quid pro quo along the lines of "punish the anglers, support the fake fish farmers and we'll not mess with your land holdings" has been struck, and the brogue-clads are keen to comply...

    The Deils Pact... WFR=TDP

    Myself, I am not so sure




    PS - let them all go Very droll. Here's a direct question to you based on your above post:

    Are you an STA member / associated with them in any way, shape or form?

    Simple "yes" or "no" answer please

    Quote Originally Posted by let them all go View Post
    Thanks for the link gamekeeper.
    Some good stuff there.
    Must join them.
    Last edited by seeking; 08-04-2015 at 01:47 PM.
    "...hooking mortality is higher than you'd expect: further evidence that as a numbers game, catch-and-release fishing isn't always as straightforward as it seems"
    John Gierach


    Fed up of debating C&R - see Hidden Content

    Unless otherwise stated, data used in any graph/figure/table are Crown copyright, used with the permission of MSS and/or EA and/or ICES. MSS / EA / ICES are not responsible for interpretation of these data by third parties

  9. #9
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    The S&TA are a joke.

    They produced a response on a Severn byelaw without even consulting the Severn regional chair.

    Mind you the AST guy who wrote a response on the same matter couldn't even tell me what the catch was he was trying to restrict.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seeking View Post
    Indeed.

    A Devils Advocate may be forgiven for thinking that somewhere a quid pro quo along the lines of "punish the anglers, support the fake fish farmers and we'll not mess with your land holdings" has been struck, and the brogue-clads are keen to comply...

    The Deils Pact... WFR=TDP

    Myself, I am not so sure
    I'm not sure I buy that conspiracy theory. I think it's more closely related to good old fashioned stupidity, obstinance and group-think with a little bit of penny-pinching thrown in for good measure.

    Stupidity because they think C&R is a valid instrument to improve stocks of returning salmon, that the current level of netting is unsustainable and that fly is the only way to catch a fish.

    Obstinance because they won't engage in debate with 'stakeholders' who disagree with their approach, because they won't agknowledge that some things just don't work and they totally defy the available numbers.

    Group-think because the credo that C&R is a 1st step to heaven and that 'all the problems are at sea' is common to all these organisations, one says it and before you know it single barbless hooks for all!

    Penny pinching because the donors to those organisations could deal with the netting, counting and monitoring problems with the cash they drop behind the sofa; but instead want somebody else to do it for them, for free.

    2 bad seasons and a few cancellations and all of a sudden the balloon goes up. A few proprieters on a few rivers think their asset's going down in value so somebody else better do something about it for them. A couple of organisations realise that they need to justify their existance and nothing justifys conservation measures like an extinction...............

    The battery fish farmers don't need to do anything, anyway what difference would sorting that out make to the Spey, Dee,,, South Esk???

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