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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    edzell
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    2,492

    Default genetic aversion.

    This isn't meant as an anti catch and release thread so please try and refrain from reverting to the usual arguments.

    I read an article last year that seemed to confirm that learned aversion can be passed on genetically.
    This involved making mice associate strawberries with punishment.
    Within 3 generations, the mice had an aversion to strawberries that could only have been passed on genetically.

    This got me thinking, could we be doing something similar to salmon.
    Would catching them create enough stress that they could develop a genetically passed on aversion.
    If so, would it be more prevalent, if the lures tended to all be the same?
    I.e if the fishing was fly only, then probably the 2 main aversions would be large black themed flies or small shrimp flies.
    This may explain why some deadly files seem to stop being so deadly over time.
    Of course it could also just be that some other deadly fly is the new fad and nobody uses the old deadly fly.
    If all methods were allowed, then the aversion would be spread over prawns worms, flying Cs, tobies, devons etc.
    But being wider spread, May not be so strong.

    Is it possible that we will change to some extent, salmon behaviour over their next 3 generations due to the 80% catch and release we have now.

    Unfortunately I can't find the paper on the internet

    Cheers

    Mows

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm not being dismissive in any way , Alan , but I think you may be endowing a salmon with more " intelligence " than it actually possesses.

    But I've been wrong before.
    Remember Thomas Muir of Huntershill

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bennington, Vermont, USA
    Posts
    857

    Default

    I guess I'd really need to read that paper before I threw any 2 cents in.
    Hope you find it.
    Gary

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    In the shadow of Morven
    Posts
    498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ibm59 View Post
    I'm not being dismissive in any way , Alan , but I think you may be endowing a salmon with more " intelligence " than it actually possesses.

    But I've been wrong before.
    The salmon may not have intelligence as us humans know it,
    But they do have an an instinct for home and survival which is far more superior than your average human trying to navigate home after a night on the tiles and 2 bottles of Jaegermeister

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    But they do have an an instinct for home and survival which is far more superior than your average human trying to navigate home after a night on the tiles and 2 bottles of Jaegermeister
    Sounds like the voice of experience , Noodles.
    Not having tried Jaegermeister , I couldn't possibly comment.

    Anyway , back on topic..................
    Remember Thomas Muir of Huntershill

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ireland/Scotland
    Posts
    600

    Default

    The day that salmon develop this genetic aversion is the day they become extinct. They would lose the ability to feed.

  7. #7

    Default

    Werz all the fish post 24. George is very knowledgable and had over 50 years experience on one of the most productive fisheries in Scotland. He thought it possible. Who knows?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    In the shadow of Morven
    Posts
    498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ibm59 View Post
    Sounds like the voice of experience , Noodles.
    Not having tried Jaegermeister , I couldn't possibly comment.

    Anyway , back on topic..................
    Your speaking to a t totaler.

  9. #9
    TonyPrior Guest

    Default

    You may be referring to a theory of evolution known as Lamarckism, Mows. It still has adherents, though it would be fair to say that in the present climate it is seen as discredited or at least very limited in scope.

    Intelligence, vicarious learning and social behaviour in fish is another matter.

  10. #10

    Default

    Hey Alan,

    Ive had a similar thought in the past.

    Some fish are 'players' (steelhead bro-brah speak for 'likely to take') and other arent. I think we can all pretty well agree on this. Is it possible the disposition to readily take a fly is at least partially genetic in some small manner? Could it be that in the great days of yore, when the vast majority of fish were killed, the fish with a predisposition to take a fly were chapped and removed from the gene pool before they could pass those taking genes on and those that without the predisposition to take have passed on their own genetics?

    No idea. This isnt scientific in the least, but certainly fits into the concept 'survival of the fittest'.
    Heero just pawn in game of life.

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