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Thread: Lines?

  1. #11
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    Ian,

    shame you're doing your pants as I wanted to give you a 45 minute burst on optical physics

    I started with the theory and then worked backwards to photography. You'll find it explained in "Here's Looking at You" on J1W.

    The photography allows me to calibrate the algorithms that I use in Photoshop to assess the detectability of flies in differing water types, colours and light levels.

    Hope you had a great evening's ironing

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCXFisher View Post
    Ian,

    shame you're doing your pants as I wanted to give you a 45 minute burst on optical physics

    I started with the theory and then worked backwards to photography. You'll find it explained in "Here's Looking at You" on J1W.

    The photography allows me to calibrate the algorithms that I use in Photoshop to assess the detectability of flies in differing water types, colours and light levels.

    Hope you had a great evening's ironing
    Seven all squared up and ready for duty thanks

    Ahh, quite so, physics first then photos to illustrate. Had you based your post on observed findings I would have asked which blue and at what ambient colour temperature you observed it. Having dealt with colour experts I can confirm that describing colour is a dangerous business (and that's before we even get to what a salmons position on the matter is)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    Seven all squared up and ready for duty thanks

    Ahh, quite so, physics first then photos to illustrate. Had you based your post on observed findings I would have asked which blue and at what ambient colour temperature you observed it. Having dealt with colour experts I can confirm that describing colour is a dangerous business (and that's before we even get to what a salmons position on the matter is)
    Just imagine the dreadful pictures we often take when the backlight is strong and the near subject is in maximum shade! THAT PIC is what most fish see. Within reason any choice of line based on colour alone is sheer bunkum...other than in the case of line flash in the air. (John Goddard's trout book has excellent pictures of experiments done with Stewart Canham regarding this matter)

    Regarding sinking lines I am not so sure that this applies....then I would prefer the old wet-cel colours I suppose!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by castor View Post
    Just imagine the dreadful pictures we often take when the backlight is strong and the near subject is in maximum shade! THAT PIC is what most fish see. Within reason any choice of line based on colour alone is sheer bunkum...other than in the case of line flash in the air. (John Goddard's trout book has excellent pictures of experiments done with Stewart Canham regarding this matter)

    Regarding sinking lines I am not so sure that this applies....then I would prefer the old wet-cel colours I suppose!
    You used to be able to buy the AFS in a fluorescent orange as an alternative to the usual green/straw. Whilst I agree with your point on a technical basis which colour would you have bought?

    I still have an AFS outbound in that colour and the shocking orange allows every b0lloxed up cast to be seen from 800m away and that's as good a reason as any to be more unobtrusive

    MCX will I'm sure make the point that at the depth a wetcell fishes - esp when typically the sun's elevation is low and the water is coloured (or why are you using your wetcell?) the colour is irrelevant since it's going to be a shade of grey.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyian View Post
    You used to be able to buy the AFS in a fluorescent orange as an alternative to the usual green/straw. Whilst I agree with your point on a technical basis which colour would you have bought?

    I still have an AFS outbound in that colour and the shocking orange allows every b0lloxed up cast to be seen from 800m away and that's as good a reason as any to be more unobtrusive

    MCX will I'm sure make the point that at the depth a wetcell fishes - esp when typically the sun's elevation is low and the water is coloured (or why are you using your wetcell?) the colour is irrelevant since it's going to be a shade of grey.

    The real point is that it matters little...line flash being the main factor I would go for the neutral coloured lines when possible. Though for photographing people casting I would prefer the brightest fluro orange possible...but never for fishing!

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by castor View Post
    Just imagine the dreadful pictures we often take when the backlight is strong and the near subject is in maximum shade! THAT PIC is what most fish see. Within reason any choice of line based on colour alone is sheer bunkum...other than in the case of line flash in the air. (John Goddard's trout book has excellent pictures of experiments done with Stewart Canham regarding this matter)
    True, but that's not quite the whole story.

    As you say, Goddard and Clarke's book demonstrated that any fly line seen against a background of the sky appears dark. However, that only occurs in what they call the fish's window - the cone-shaped area above the fish determined by the angle of incidence of light being greater than the critical angle (I think that's right, but it's a long time since my physics O-level!).

    Outside the window, in the area that Goddard and Clarke call the mirror, the fish see things (such as fly lines) against a background of a reflection of the river bed, which is usually darkish. Here, it stands to reason that a darker line will be less visible than a bright one, and again the pictures in G&C's book confirm the point.

    Of course, Goddard and Clarke were working on chalk streams, which tend to flow smoothly. On a classic highland salmon pool, with ripply or broken water, it may be that the fly line appears so broken-up that it doesn't much matter. But, especially given that your local river is the 'Canal', I'm sure that you sometimes find yourself fishing some quite flat water, and in these conditions it seems to me that there is a good reason to opt for a dull-coloured or clear line.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieH View Post
    True, but that's not quite the whole story.

    As you say, Goddard and Clarke's book demonstrated that any fly line seen against a background of the sky appears dark. However, that only occurs in what they call the fish's window - the cone-shaped area above the fish determined by the angle of incidence of light being greater than the critical angle (I think that's right, but it's a long time since my physics O-level!).

    Outside the window, in the area that Goddard and Clarke call the mirror, the fish see things (such as fly lines) against a background of a reflection of the river bed, which is usually darkish. Here, it stands to reason that a darker line will be less visible than a bright one, and again the pictures in G&C's book confirm the point.

    Of course, Goddard and Clarke were working on chalk streams, which tend to flow smoothly. On a classic highland salmon pool, with ripply or broken water, it may be that the fly line appears so broken-up that it doesn't much matter. But, especially given that your local river is the 'Canal', I'm sure that you sometimes find yourself fishing some quite flat water, and in these conditions it seems to me that there is a good reason to opt for a dull-coloured or clear line.
    Charlie,

    you remember correctly!

    The second area - Window 2 - tends to be bright in comparison to the lower half of the fish's field of view, so the backlighting effect is still present. On a typical salmon river the reflecting surface is a continuously changing pattern of random 'tiles' of varying brightness which prevent the fish from forming a consistent image, as you rightly noted.

    As you correctly pointed out G & C's exceptionally valuable work on chalk streams was in smoothly flowing shallow water of exceptional clarity, and at times of year with higher sun elevations. As a result the sub surface light levels were many times greater than those we usually encounter in northern salmon rivers.

  8. #18
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    27471666ng.jpg
    up to 708 gr
    Last edited by troutcontrol; 30-12-2016 at 04:15 PM.

  9. #19
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by beardog View Post
    Vision have a 10/11 42g Clear Float head in their current line up. Supposed to be a low float that sits in the surface. Made by Rio with a similar profile to the Rio Scandi.
    Made by AIRFLO.

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