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Thread: east arkengarthdale estate in north yorkshire

  1. #1
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    Default east arkengarthdale estate in north yorkshire

    a ping on my email last week brought yet another disgraceful incident concerning grouse moors to light
    "in December 2014 the rspb investigation team observed then uncovered a illegal buried poison cache, incredibly nobody was prosecuted for this illegal stash and despite the best efforts of the north Yorkshire police the gamekeeper who had admitted using the poisons cache had his
    firearms certificates returned to him.
    several organisations within the grouse shooting industry have been asked a number of questions about the case but as yet none have been answered.
    now the question arises, whether east arkengarthdale estate ltd received any agricultural subsidies that year? and if so, will the conformation that the gamekeeper was using the illegal poisons cache, constitute a cross compliance breach of any subsidy penalty?
    according to company house records, east arkengarthdale estates ltd have two directors, eric axel lennart torstenson and mrs anita Ingrid linnea torstenson, and according to the cap payments website, all but £250000.00 was paid out in 2015, a few questions seem to arise here?
    1is this public money getting spent wisely, considering the circumstances?
    2does this reinforce the question of the need for licences for moors that stick to the law
    3 when will vicarious liability become law in England? because there are signs that its working in Scotland
    and lastly, totally unconnected, a shot peregrine falcon was found on this estate months later, Yorkshire is now become a raptor black hole dead zone, shame on you east arkengarthdale
    happy days, Taddy and lowforcefly like this.
    my three most successful flies are gold bodied willie gunn, gold bodied willie gunn and gold bodied willie gunn



  2. #2
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    Default shocker-country side abuse

    i been saying for yrs the very ppl who shout conservation can be the very ppl who are breaking the laws of the land and the laws of nature,same lot shout "fly only" in the fishing world,same lot are as corrupt as the next man,same lot like to smear other people,same lot divert whats really happening when falcons are being shot,mostly likely by their keepers...........not a very nice lot from my personal experiences, not what yer would call a nice "Lot".
    “I will take everything and give nothing until
    there is a short drop and a sudden stop”

  3. #3
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    Default

    Allegations with no convictions.are you sure you want to have your name connected with this because 1 thing is for sure.If the owners of this forum are asked for your ID in a libel case they will deliver it.So it may be in your interest to edit your posts.Or the owners might just do it for you.
    stuckinlondon and Taddy like this.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flyman View Post
    Allegations with no convictions.are you sure you want to have your name connected with this because 1 thing is for sure.If the owners of this forum are asked for your ID in a libel case they will deliver it.So it may be in your interest to edit your posts.Or the owners might just do it for you.
    There may be no conviction in this case, but there also wasn't any doubt. The probable lack of conviction was the way the evidence was found.
    Vicarious liability, licencing and removal of subsidies for bad estates would soon cure it, and would do no harm what so ever to law abiding estates.
    The Dales seem to be above the law.
    Possibly the worst police force in the UK.
    happy days, Taddy and marty31 like this.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Not really bothered about grouse moors but know they support and provide income for our country cousins. As far as I am concerned the RSPB will always be a thorn in the side of salmon anglers and try to stop cull licenses for the birds which are causing devastation on my local river.....I do not get a boner if I see a raptor when out salmon fishing but feel the countryside custodians should be left to run their estates as they see fit ..too many city tree hungers who bring no money to rural economy dictating their **** on the countryside estates. Shooting estates should be able to control raptor numbers as they see fit and if tree hugging estates want to stop shooting and be run by the RSPB then fair enough...

    Anyway enough said and I should not be typing when full of festive spirits.

  6. #6
    SP8
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    Default

    I live in the "black hole for raptors".Funnily enough it's lifting with them round here. Don't tar everybody with the same brush just because there are some bad ones.


    SP8
    Taddy and Guest005 like this.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Single Hander View Post
    Not really bothered about grouse moors but know they support and provide income for our country cousins. As far as I am concerned the RSPB will always be a thorn in the side of salmon anglers and try to stop cull licenses for the birds which are causing devastation on my local river.....I do not get a boner if I see a raptor when out salmon fishing but feel the countryside custodians should be left to run their estates as they see fit ..too many city tree hungers who bring no money to rural economy dictating their **** on the countryside estates. Shooting estates should be able to control raptor numbers as they see fit and if tree hugging estates want to stop shooting and be run by the RSPB then fair enough...

    Anyway enough said and I should not be typing when full of festive spirits.
    theres not much about the rspb that I like either, 60% of what they do I disagree with, but is a illegal poison cache not illegal? and as far as I am aware non of this has got anything to do with salmon fishing, country shooting estates should be trusted to run their estates as they see fit as long as it also is within the law, public money has to been seen to be spent properly, therefore if its not, should be stopped, the law should apply to everyone, including estate company directors.
    my three most successful flies are gold bodied willie gunn, gold bodied willie gunn and gold bodied willie gunn

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flyman View Post
    Allegations with no convictions.are you sure you want to have your name connected with this because 1 thing is for sure.If the owners of this forum are asked for your ID in a libel case they will deliver it.So it may be in your interest to edit your posts.Or the owners might just do it for you.
    why wouldn't I want my name connected with this? the gamekeeper admitted the charges, anyway, its a copy of a public email, so how would that make me libel? I very much doubt that its in east arkengarthdales interests to pursue a libel case against me, but if they want to, bring it on
    Taddy and doubletaper like this.
    my three most successful flies are gold bodied willie gunn, gold bodied willie gunn and gold bodied willie gunn

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marty31 View Post
    ............ to pursue a libel case against me, but if they want to, bring it on


    I think that anyone who 'spreads the word' - on the evidence at hand - is quite open to the bringing of a defamation action. Even if one won the case costs would not necessarily follow....could be expensive even to 'win'!

    [Have they carried out forensic tests on the 'stash', including fingerprinting and DNA? Likewise suspects?]

  10. #10
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    Default

    I think the point of subsidy payments etc is primarily to allow public access over private land so hikers, ramblers or even just a family out for a casual walk can enjoy walking over beautiful countryside.

    The land is owned privately & having to allow access to the public degrades the ability to use the land as efficiently as possible so much of the subsidies are to compensate for this & allow continued public access.

    If these were removed then up go the fences & it's "gerroff my land" time.

    You can't partially nationalise something, such as permitting public access to privately owned land, without compensating the owners accordingly.

    So if the owners are guilty of a wildlife crime (even if only vicariously due the actions of an employee) then they could be prosecuted & fined accordingly; but I don't see how the subsidy could be withheld as this relates to so much more than just wildlife preservation (by which obviously a very narrow view of wildlife -i.e. "Raptors" is apparently taken) in terms of total benefits to the greater public.

    Regards, Tyke.



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